New Leica Packaging - Blaah

[sinquerer]

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46 minutes ago, maxpower said:

If you truly believe that the most expensive things are the best things you are misguided. But I'm opting out of this discussion now because I think you are just trolling and I don't feel like wasting more of my time. 

No. I said I believe that Leica is a luxury brand. And this shouldn't be a controversial statement or a trolling statement. 

Don't take it from me. Take it from the CEO of Leica how he describes Leica as a luxury brand and how it is perceived by people. Here he is saying it in German:

- From WELT: Matthias Harsch, CEO of Leica Camera AG (September 23, 2022)

“Leica gilt als Luxusmarke für Puristen.”

- From WELT: Matthias Harsch on China market positioning

“In China ist Leica eine Lifestyle‑Marke. Dort lässt man sich auch gern mit einer Leica sehen, ohne damit zu fotografieren.”

- From WELT: On Leica’s growth and luxury image (here is he calling Leica a "technical luxury brand")

“Leica verzeichnet … seinen dritten Rekordumsatz in Folge … und sich als technische Luxusmarke positioniert.”

[sinquerer]

11 minutes ago, pedaes said:

It wasn't immediate. You hag to  prove it 

Lets try again. Do you use a Leica? 

Of course I do. Didn't I just describe the packaging and how I thought the strap was terrible? It's still in the box after 3 1/2 years. Would you like me to post a photo of the box? I think the trolls are here but they're not me. Just re-read the thread again. I just posted a very simple post about the packaging. 

To get this back on track, as an expensive luxury item, the packaging should be more than a $1,500 Fuji. In my opinion. When I unpacked mine it was a very nice experience as I described before. 

And again I also think they should include a nice large Leica microfiber cloth (it can also serve as a bag for the camera to wrap it so the camera isn't just there without anything when you open the box), and a very nice leather strap to the quality of RocknRoll Straps. I would expect that (plus a charger) for a $10,000? camera. That's $10,000+ US American dollars (or whatever it is now with all the price hikes). 

Edited July 12 by sinquerer

[pedaes]

Just now, sinquerer said:

Would you like me to post a photo of the box? 

Nu, but I would like you to post some pics taken with your 3.5 years old camera and join the community as a Leica user

[sinquerer]

2 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Nu, but I would like you to post some pics taken with your 3.5 years old camera and join the community as a Leica user

Post where? We are talking about boxes. I don't like posting photos on Facebook or forums. Is posting photos a requirement?

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, sinquerer said:

If you don't like definitions I can show you many times where Leica's top brass referred to their brand as a high-end LUXURY brand. 

To pretend Leica isn't a luxury brand is a ridiculous conversation to have. 

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[sinquerer]

50 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I don’t like AI generated content which is strongly discouraged on this forum. 

I think so, so I quoted Matthias Harsch himself saying Leica is a luxury brand just to move on to the topic. 

At some point after Kaufmann took over and wanted to save Leica from bankruptcy, Leica shifted from a company who just made photographic tools for professionals to a luxury brand. 

Most notable was the ridiculous Hermès collaboration in 2012 with the Leica M9-P Hermès edition which cost over $50,000. Also partnerships with Zegna, Moncler, Disney, and Vans. Created cameras as status symbols, not just tools, and made a lot of collaborations with celebrities, like the Lenny Kravitz edition. Retail stores became luxury galleries in the most exclusive parts of town. Where I live the Leica store is in the most expensive mall in the entire country next to the most luxurious experience brands from bags to jewelry. Stores are designed more like flagship boutiques than camera shops.

We are talking about Leica. They made a camera for royalty literally made of gold and recently went into the luxury watch business. 

So the topic is, do luxury brands deserve luxury packaging?

The answer is YES. 

[jaapv]

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Your knowledge of these seems to be a bit lacking. The Hermes edition was on the occasion of Hermes retiring as an investor. Leica was lucky that they got some money pumped in in the first place as they were close to bankrupt at the time. The reason for the association was that Jean-Louis Hermes was a Leica fan and did not want to see the firm go under, handing over the baton to Dr.Kaufmann in 2012. Yes, Leica makes special editions and bespoke cameras - they have been doing so since 1928 and it is a company tradition and yes, they do turn a profit, which is to the advantage of the buyers of their tools. And yes, a company selling high-priced gear cannot have a company store in a slum. So what?  No reason to turn pejorative. 

To turn to packaging, we live in a day and age that wasteful packaging is held against companies and can impact negatively on sales. Why should we expect Leica not to follow the trend to more sustainable practices? I must confess that I am one of those users that does not hang onto empty cartons, and though I tend not to throw leather pouches out, I have no idea where the majority of them is hiding. 

[sinquerer]

12 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Your knowledge of these seems to be a bit lacking. The Hermes edition was on the occasion of Hermes retiring as an investor. Yes, Leica makes special editions and bespoke cameras - they have been doing so since 1928 and it is a company tradition and yes, they do turn a profit, which is to the advantage of the buyers of their tools. And yes, a company selling high-priced gear cannot have a company store in a slum. So what?  No reason to turn pejorative. 

To turn to packaging, we live in a day and age that wasteful packaging is held against companies and can impact negatively on sales. Why should we expect Leica not to follow the trend to more sustainable practices? I must confess that I am one of those users that does not hang onto empty cartons, and though I tend not to throw leather pouches out, I have no idea where the majority of them is hiding. 

That's the point. A $10,000 body only brass rangefinder shouldn't be in a carton. 

No. You don't need to be in a slum. You also don't need to have a luxurious gallery experience boutique in the most luxurious part of town between Gucci and Fendi. When I go buy a Fuji I don't go to the Fuji experience luxury boutique. Or buying a $30,000 luxury Nikon watch. 

No matter how you twist the facts to fit your point of view that somehow Leica isn't a luxury brand, Leica is in fact a luxury brand and that's fine. The cameras should come in a nice package, and include more for us in that package. 

Edited July 13 by sinquerer

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, sinquerer said:

That's the point. A $10,000 body only brass rangefinder shouldn't be in a carton. 

Why not? I would not care if it were wrapped in yesterday's newspaper.  And what more should they include in the package? A monocle to wear with your top hat?  Leica is a provider of superb photographic tools at a price that users are prepared to pay. What is luxury about tools? Quite a few of the tools I use daily are a darn lot more expensive. Have you looked at the prices of the top model cameras of other brands lately? Granted, 10.000 Euro is a lot of money for many people, but why waste it on baubles like fancy packaging?

[sinquerer]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why not? I would not care if it were wrapped in yesterday's newspaper.  And what more should they include in the package? A monocle to wear with your top hat?  Leica is a provider of superb photographic tools at a price that users are prepared to pay. What is luxury about tools? Quite a few of the tools I use daily are a darn lot more expensive. Have you looked at the prices of the top model cameras of other brands lately? Granted, 10.000 Euro is a lot of money for many people, but why waste it on baubles like fancy packaging?

Exactly. Well said. 

Leica M is just a tool. Put it in a paper bag. 

[jaapv]

It would work exactly the same  However I would advise some bubble wrap for transport. 
Seriously: it is indeed just a tool. A nice one, a unique one and a desirable one, but a tool nonetheless. 

[Einst_Stein]

What exactly is the a brand?

My bike costs only few hundreds $, but I have a friend who spent $20K on a bike. His bike is light and runs so smooth. He rides it everyday, and sometimes take it to fly abroad for international road trips.  Even his bike paddles and shoes cost amazihg amount of money.

Is his bike a luxuary item? I don't know what brand it is, but is it a luxuray brand?

[andybarton]

12 hours ago, sinquerer said:

When you buy an Omega watch, the presentation box is a beautiful wooden box

No it isn’t. It’s cardboard. I have my watch box on the shelf here. And this one is from about 20 years ago, before people worried about packaging. 

[250swb]

6 hours ago, sinquerer said:

 

No matter how you twist the facts to fit your point of view that somehow Leica isn't a luxury brand, Leica is in fact a luxury brand and that's fine. The cameras should come in a nice package, and include more for us in that package. 

I think you are confusing a certain aspect of the Leica brand with the entire Leica brand. One end is for collector editions etc., and one end is for buying a camera that we can mount our Chinese lenses on. It is that end which is getting the new boxes and I'm sure the collectors end will get 'better' boxes as they always have.

I think you'll find most manufacturing companies offer a range of products to suit different pockets, and you clearly don't understand this is what Leica also do, so just as you can buy a 'cheap' Porsche or BMW so you can buy an expensive and exclusive one as well. I dare say the expensive one comes with a ribbon, a bottle of champagne, a bouquet of flowers and a performance driving course.

 

[LocalHero1953]

'Luxury' is in the mind of the buyer. To someone on the breadline, a luxury is anything you don't need to stay alive. In Gaza it's anything other than food, water and medical care. To many of us it's something expensive that we don't need for day to day living. For many other people any camera other than a smartphone (which counts as essential in some lifestyles) would be a luxury, whether it's Fuji or Leica. Leica certainly positions itself as a luxury brand, but that doesn't mean all its products are luxury items. Leica Ms are better candidates for luxury items than the Q, SL or S because they can be sold on their tradition/history. But they are still practical tools that may be bought for those practical/technical qualities, not because they are luxuries. If photography is your thing, then a Leica M, Q, SL, S may well be a necessity to help you achieve your photographic goals.

I'm firmly in the 'minimal packaging please' camp. I buy and use Leicas because I can and because I believe (correctly or not) that they encourage/allow me to take more and better photos. But I don't need a box with drawers lined in velvet to do that.

[JNK100]

EU law dictates that no charger is supplied. It is the same for all manufacturers.

Edited July 13 by JNK100
Error

[JNK100]

18 hours ago, sinquerer said:

I think so, so I quoted Matthias Harsch himself saying Leica is a luxury brand just to move on to the topic. 

At some point after Kaufmann took over and wanted to save Leica from bankruptcy, Leica shifted from a company who just made photographic tools for professionals to a luxury brand. 

Most notable was the ridiculous Hermès collaboration in 2012 with the Leica M9-P Hermès edition which cost over $50,000. Also partnerships with Zegna, Moncler, Disney, and Vans. Created cameras as status symbols, not just tools, and made a lot of collaborations with celebrities, like the Lenny Kravitz edition. Retail stores became luxury galleries in the most exclusive parts of town. Where I live the Leica store is in the most expensive mall in the entire country next to the most luxurious experience brands from bags to jewelry. Stores are designed more like flagship boutiques than camera shops.

We are talking about Leica. They made a camera for royalty literally made of gold and recently went into the luxury watch business. 

So the topic is, do luxury brands deserve luxury packaging?

The answer is YES. 

Buy yourself a nice box for it if you wish.

Edited July 13 by JNK100

[Guest]

22 hours ago, sinquerer said:

I'm not talking about people here who buy Leica cameras. I am talking about Leica. The brand Leica. It is a luxury brand. To pretend it isn't is a bit silly. 

Luxury = Very expensive, exclusive, Niche market.  

And like I said, when you are about to plunk down $20,000 for a small camera and a lens you expect that those items will not come in cheap cardboard boxes. The unboxing is part of the experience. It has to be at that price point.

Nonsense, I have a lot of very wealthy friends, and none of them have ever heard of Leica. I also have a lot of less wealthy friends and none of them have heard of Leica either.

I had a Q2 Reporter a couple of years ago, and the only comments were asking me if it was a toy camera!

A fairly basic new car costs at least four times the price of an M11, and I don't ask the car dealer for the plastic protection sheets that the car arrives with.

It's just a camera that takes nice photos if you learn to use it properly.

Edited July 13 by Corius

[Helge]

The only purpose of a packaging is protection. Protection during storage and transport against bumps and vibrations, against dust, fluctuating temperatures and fluctuating humidity. And it serves keeping the product together, so nothing gets lost. And it serves identification for correct storage, inventory and sales. At the end some corporate identity is neat, like a label:

All these purposes are basically gone, once the product has been sold and unboxed.

Leica has probably discovered that their customers buy actually a camera, and not a piece of cardboard 😉

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Carlos cruz]

It’s nice to see that people are not hiding their emotions, it always amazes me that usually these are threads about camera bags and now packaging ;-]