jaapv Posted July 12 Share #21 Posted July 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) To claim is a bit uniformed and foolish. It is an expensive brand - that is something quite different. You seem to be into watches. Rolex is a luxury brand. IWC is an expensive brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12 Posted July 12 Hi jaapv, Take a look here New Leica Packaging - Blaah. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #22 Posted July 12 1 minute ago, jaapv said: To claim is a bit uniformed and foolish. It is an expensive brand - that is something quite different. Right. The characteristics of a luxury item doesn't fit $10,000 Leica cameras at all. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422079-new-leica-packaging-blaah/?do=findComment&comment=5832613'>More sharing options...
pedaes Posted July 12 Share #23 Posted July 12 2 minutes ago, jaapv said: It is an expensive brand And always has been. I am fascinated with the number of cameras they sold in the 1920/30's given the economies of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12 Share #24 Posted July 12 1 minute ago, sinquerer said: Right. The characteristics of a luxury item doesn't fit $10,000 Leica cameras at all. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! AI nonsense? That is your authority? 🤣 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted July 12 Share #25 Posted July 12 1 minute ago, sinquerer said: $10,000 Leica cameras at all. If it makes you feel proud, fine. I think if you apply an inflation uplift to M and especially R bodies from the 70's they were in line. Accept recent changes have seen a small step in price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #26 Posted July 12 2 minutes ago, pedaes said: And always has been. I am fascinated with the number of cameras they sold in the 1920/30's given the economies of the time. - A Leica camera in the 1930s cost $300-$500 - Production in the 30s was 3-5,000 cameras a year. - To be rich in the 1930s you had an income of around $10,000 a year. - Global population was 2 billion people. 0.1- 0.5% of the population was considered "rich". Mostly concentrated in Europe and the USA. - Top 1% of wealthy individuals in the USA was roughly 1.2 million rich people, and several million across Europe. Today Leica sells 40-60,000 per year and there are 600+ million rich people in the world compared to less than 10 million rich people in the 1930s (meaning $1M+ net worth). So there were millions of rich people in Europe and the USA in the 1930s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted July 12 Share #27 Posted July 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey, Apple, listen to this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted July 12 Share #28 Posted July 12 2 hours ago, jaapv said: or trophy wife Oh, if only . . . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted July 12 Share #29 Posted July 12 Yeah, I appreciate a nice box as much as anyone but I think the new eco box is perfectly fine for a box I touch once and then put in storage while I go and play with the camera itself. I actually liked opening the box and having the camera presented to me like immediately, and without plastic, it was a good unboxing experience and to me it does not feel like a cheap box. We like different things and this just seems like an agree to disagree discussion. As for luxury I think it's subjective, I personally don't consider them a luxury brand (which I base mostly on my personal experiences and interactions with Leica personnel), but sometimes they behave like they are, and that's fine with me. They are expensive though, but it is more understandable given the lower production numbers, smaller staff and European wages, complex mechanics (especially the rangefinder), premium materials, etc. I wish they were more affordable too, but in the used market they are so they can have multiple lives. Pretty great actually! Getting back to the box, I'm not rich by any means but the rich people I know generally don't unbox things themselves anyway so doubt they care as much as you do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted July 12 Share #30 Posted July 12 14 minutes ago, sinquerer said: - A Leica camera in the 1930s cost $300-$500 - Production in the 30s was 3-5,000 cameras a year. - To be rich in the 1930s you had an income of around $10,000 a year. - Global population was 2 billion people. 0.1- 0.5% of the population was considered "rich". Mostly concentrated in Europe and the USA. - Top 1% of wealthy individuals in the USA was roughly 1.2 million rich people, and several million across Europe. Today Leica sells 40-60,000 per year and there are 600+ million rich people in the world compared to less than 10 million rich people in the 1930s (meaning $1M+ net worth). So there were millions of rich people in Europe and the USA in the 1930s. What a load of bollocks (one of @jaapv favourite words) from someone who joined this forum 6 hours ago. Inflation calculator: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422079-new-leica-packaging-blaah/?do=findComment&comment=5832632'>More sharing options...
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #31 Posted July 12 14 minutes ago, jaapv said: AI nonsense? That is your authority? 🤣 If you don't like definitions I can show you many times where Leica's top brass referred to their brand as a high-end LUXURY brand. To pretend Leica isn't a luxury brand is a ridiculous conversation to have. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422079-new-leica-packaging-blaah/?do=findComment&comment=5832633'>More sharing options...
pedaes Posted July 12 Share #32 Posted July 12 @sinquerer I see you joined 6 hours ago and want to fight. I assume you do not own a Leica camera and are Wiki using Troll, Right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #33 Posted July 12 (edited) 7 minutes ago, T25UFO said: What a load of bollocks (one of @jaapv favourite words) from someone who joined this forum 6 hours ago. Inflation calculator: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Wrong. I was never talking about crappy pounds. I very clearly used US American dollar signs. In the 1930s someone earning $10,000 a year was earning over $175,000 a year today. Here exactly in 1930 is $192,000. AMERICAN dollars. Edited July 12 by sinquerer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted July 12 Share #34 Posted July 12 6 minutes ago, sinquerer said: Wrong. I was never talking about crappy pounds. I very clearly used US American dollar signs. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! In the 1930s someone earning $10,000 a year was earning over $175,000 a year today. Here exactly in 1930 is $192,000. AMERICAN dollars. Yeah, but that's not real money. No one gives a f**k about America in the 1930s🤣🤣🤣🤣 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #35 Posted July 12 19 minutes ago, maxpower said: They are expensive though, but it is more understandable given the lower production numbers, smaller staff and European wages, complex mechanics (especially the rangefinder), premium materials, etc. This is the very definition of a luxury item. I don't understand what's wrong or negative about a luxury item. Luxury items, because of what you just described, are the best consumer products you can buy. Which is why they're so expensive. Best watch? A Patek Phillippe. Best car? Buggati Best luggage? Hand made in England the Globe-Trotter Best camera? Leica Best airplane seats? Emirates First Class A350 Best resort? Laucala Island Resort, Fiji What do all those "best things" have in common? Other than they're not necessary (which BTW is in the definition of the word LUXURY in the dictionary). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lykaman Posted July 12 Share #36 Posted July 12 Over the years I have unboxed (New) quite a few Leica products and quite a few other marques. The Leica is an experience (MP240 Safari Set) my recent 28-70 Vario Elmarit SL comes to mind. Very nicely packed/boxed, definitely an experience going through the unwrapping/unboxing experience. The lens sat there in it's glory just waiting to be picked ups fondled and then mated to my camera.. Some of the $'s I spent obviously went into the unboxing/unpacking experience. Loved It, thank you Leica.. A beautiful Lens to boot..I remember reading about Sir Jackie Stewart holding a party for the Unboxing/Presenting his new James Purdey guns.. Now that's an Unboxing to remember.. 🥂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted July 12 Share #37 Posted July 12 1 minute ago, sinquerer said: This is the very definition of a luxury item. I don't understand what's wrong or negative about a luxury item. Luxury items, because of what you just described, are the best consumer products you can buy. Which is why they're so expensive. Best watch? A Patek Phillippe. Best car? Buggati Best luggage? Hand made in England the Globe-Trotter Best camera? Leica Best airplane seats? Emirates First Class A350 Best resort? Laucala Island Resort, Fiji What do all those "best things" have in common? Other than they're not necessary (which BTW is in the definition of the word LUXURY in the dictionary). If you truly believe that the most expensive things are the best things you are misguided. But I'm opting out of this discussion now because I think you are just trolling and I don't feel like wasting more of my time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted July 12 Share #38 Posted July 12 (edited) Leica is absolutely a luxury brand. Every facet of their marketing and product placement is consistent with other luxury brands. Most of which are pretty terrible corporate entities. Blackstone isn't going to invest in a low margin business and one of the key components of luxury is a huge upsell based on intangibles like image and rarity, all conveniently things that add no cost to materials and labor. The difference is that they are a luxury brand making a tool that uses a technology that no one else makes, so you could argue they’re a more practical luxury brand than most, but I can’t believe there’s even dissent about this. That said, luxury brand that they are, I couldn’t really give a shit about the packaging, so long it gets to me safely. I do like the leather lens pouches, those are practical, but I don’t need my unboxing to be an experience. I need my camera to work straight out the gates from the factory. That seems like it’s been hard enough. Maybe if they’d put more resources into that instead of past boxes I wouldn’t be as critical. Edited July 12 by pgh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinquerer Posted July 12 Share #39 Posted July 12 (edited) 13 minutes ago, pgh said: Leica is absolutely a luxury brand. Every facet of their marketing and product placement is consistent with other luxury brands. The difference is that they are a luxury brand making a tool that uses a technology that no one else makes, so you could argue they’re a more practical luxury brand than most, but I can’t believe there’s even dissent about this. That said, luxury brand that they are, I couldn’t really give a shit about the packaging, so long it gets to me safely. I do like the leather lens pouches, those are practical, but I don’t need my unboxing to be an experience. I need my camera to work straight out the gates from the factory. That seems like it’s been hard enough. Maybe if they’d put more resources into that instead of past boxes I wouldn’t be as critical. Yes. It's unbelievable that saying "Leica is a luxury brand" is controversial and you're immediately labeled a troll for saying what is obvious to everyone. I just quoted Leica management saying Leica is a luxury brand. Quote: "Leica takes after OTHER LUXURY BRANDS...". Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 12 by sinquerer Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422079-new-leica-packaging-blaah/?do=findComment&comment=5832660'>More sharing options...
pedaes Posted July 12 Share #40 Posted July 12 38 minutes ago, sinquerer said: you're immediately labeled a troll f It wasn't immediate. You hag to prove it Lets try again. Do you use a Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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