FlashAndPoof Posted June 2 Share #121 Posted June 2 Advertisement (gone after registration) For my hands at least, I'd love to have IBIS for better performance in low light. I'm afraid I don't have as steady hands as I used to. IBIS would be an instant purchase for me even if it meant the body had to be larger. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2 Posted June 2 Hi FlashAndPoof, Take a look here IBIS, lack of, Feedback. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
S Maclean Posted June 2 Share #122 Posted June 2 (edited) 5 hours ago, steve edmunds said: Maybe Fuji and Leica know more about than you and its perfectly ok? I don't see why, I have no issue with the M at 60mp nor do I have any with the 907x and that is medium format and 100 mp. You just have to know how to take the picture and where the limitations of the system are. No IBIS, Obviously low light and slow shutter. 100 mp (907x) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 2 by S Maclean 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/421568-ibis-lack-of-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=5811438'>More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 2 Share #123 Posted June 2 (edited) Same, Low IBIS, slow Shutter, low light on the subway platform and the street. Same camera 100 mp 907x. My point being, an M or the fuji 100 mp with no IBIS would still be great. No reason they can't take these same pictures, with a really friendly form factor to boost. (the 907x is fun and friendly, but not really as slim as an M) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 2 by S Maclean 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/421568-ibis-lack-of-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=5811439'>More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 2 Share #124 Posted June 2 36 minutes ago, FlashAndPoof said: For my hands at least, I'd love to have IBIS for better performance in low light. I'm afraid I don't have as steady hands as I used to. IBIS would be an instant purchase for me even if it meant the body had to be larger. Then get the SL3 or SL3S. It's a great experience on M lenses, PLus youhave the option to have the L autofocus lenses. Rented for a day and try it out. It works really well. You have IBIS and a great EVF. The SL almost made me sellm the M11, but I really have fun with the M. That being said, If the scene is challenging, I'lltake the SL or the Q 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve edmunds Posted June 2 Share #125 Posted June 2 the M camera has to be compact and so does the new fixed lens Fuji otherwise what is the point of them? if you need IBIS in 2025 get a bigger camera and have IBIS , life is full of compromises even irrelevant ones regarding expensive cameras. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 3 Share #126 Posted June 3 46 minutes ago, steve edmunds said: the M camera has to be compact and so does the new fixed lens Fuji otherwise what is the point of them? if you need IBIS in 2025 get a bigger camera and have IBIS , life is full of compromises even irrelevant ones regarding expensive cameras. Exactly....And I would add it is not really a compromise, it's a trait. M photography is what it is because it does require craft and care. One could argue that modern M digital cameras are already over-developed technically compared with their historic siblings. It's like getting a bicicle and complainng about the lack of an engine....or a classic watch and complaining it doesnt meassure your oxygen levels... You get what you get with an M...it's a tool for a purpose. And I am not unintereted on evf options orthe M12 and whatever comes next, I am not stuck in tradition, I just enjoy what I get for the purpose I get it and I don't hope for it to change to something else.....that's wny I also have something else..... I am VERY fortunate, mind you, I recognize the investement is not for everyone. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashAndPoof Posted June 3 Share #127 Posted June 3 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hmm well I suppose I should ask just how much larger would the camera theoretically need to be to fit in IBIS? It sounds like many are worried it will completely ruin the form factor. I was under the impression that it wouldn’t be a significant increase in size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted June 3 Share #128 Posted June 3 11 hours ago, steve edmunds said: Maybe Fuji and Leica know more about than you and its perfectly ok? or maybe they know a hell of alot more then you or I and this is the limit ..... when the m11 first came out Leica produced a Youtube video advising users to always use a faster shutter speed then you normally would with this camera .... they know its compromised in that way 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted June 3 Share #129 Posted June 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, S Maclean said: I don't see why, I have no issue with the M at 60mp nor do I have any with the 907x and that is medium format and 100 mp. You just have to know how to take the picture and where the limitations of the system are. No IBIS, Obviously low light and slow shutter. 100 mp (907x) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! nice shot. That looks like a couple of seconds exposure at least judging by how far the people have moved, did you shoot that handheld? impressive Edited June 3 by hillavoider Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 3 Share #130 Posted June 3 7 hours ago, S Maclean said: Then get the SL3 or SL3S. It's a great experience on M lenses, ... The point is not to have a great lens experience, but a great camera experience. Regardless how much I like my SL3, it is no M. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 3 Share #131 Posted June 3 51 minutes ago, FlashAndPoof said: Hmm well I suppose I should ask just how much larger would the camera theoretically need to be to fit in IBIS? It sounds like many are worried it will completely ruin the form factor. I was under the impression that it wouldn’t be a significant increase in size. Leica said an IBIS must fit within the current camera dimensions, or it will not be added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 3 Share #132 Posted June 3 Some good pictures here of the Leica SL2 IBIS sensor mounting - not exactly petite: https://www.nofocus.blog/home/leica-sl2-teardown-disassembly-for-full-spectrum-infrared-photography Images generally of IBIS "gear:" https://www.google.com/search?q=camera+IBIS+mechanism&client=safari&sca_esv=cf6290cf059c5086&rls=en&udm=2&biw=1516&bih=1254&ei=Ysc-aJ7eE8il0PEPhLGc2Q8&ved=0ahUKEwiel_Du_tSNAxXIEjQIHYQYJ_sQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=camera+IBIS+mechanism&gs_lp=EgNpbWciFWNhbWVyYSBJQklTIG1lY2hhbmlzbUjyWFCfDlj0UnADeACQAQCYAZkBoAHjA6oBAzUuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAKACAJgDAIgGAZIHAKAHjgKyBwC4BwDCBwDIBwA&sclient=img 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted June 3 Share #133 Posted June 3 (edited) I always find the "I don't need it, therefore no one should have it" arguments a bit baffling. If they can do it without adding size or otherwise compromising, is it just about getting some ego boost that you are part of an elite group that walked uphill to school both ways in the rain every day? The was the same debate as the Q camera with the longer lens. Some people who liked the Q with a 28mm were reacting like you were going to punch their mother in the face by suggesting that it would be nice to have an additional version with a longer lens. The only "loss" they experienced was that some other people might become happy. It honestly speaks a lot about the lack of generosity of spirit that pervades the world these days. Edited June 3 by Stuart Richardson 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted June 3 Share #134 Posted June 3 16 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said: Folks have been knocking available light shots taken with Leicas in dim, smoky jazz clubs right out of the park for years, and years, and years. Sure, and speed graphic was the standard for press cameras, but today people prefer other tools. No one is stopping you from using one, though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3 Share #135 Posted June 3 You don't get it folks. You must deserve a Leica M to use it and you have to suffer for that 😄 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 3 Share #136 Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said: I always find the "I don't need it, therefore no one should have it" arguments a bit baffling. If they can do it without adding size or otherwise compromising, is it just about getting some ego boost that you are part of an elite group that walked uphill to school both ways in the rain every day? The was the same debate as the Q camera with the longer lens. Some people who liked the Q with a 28mm were reacting like you were going to punch their mother in the face by suggesting that it would be nice to have an additional version with a longer lens. The only "loss" they experienced was that some other people might become happy. It honestly speaks a lot about the lack of generosity of spirit that pervades the world these days. You are right, but wha the argument is not that, the argument is a counter to…” if it doesn’t have it the camera is worthless and unusable and I won’t get it, and it is not possible to increase MP etc without it” 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 3 Share #137 Posted June 3 7 hours ago, hillavoider said: nice shot. That looks like a couple of seconds exposure at least judging by how far the people have moved, did you shoot that handheld? impressive No tripod but leaning against the railing on the main hall and leaning into a column in the station. The street one is handheld without any support. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 3 Share #138 Posted June 3 41 minutes ago, lct said: You don't get it folks. You must deserve a Leica M to use it and you have to suffer for that 😄 Nah, that’s just knocking the argument to avoid it. Anyone can get anything. I, for one, am not a great master of anything, much less photography. But, if you get an M with certain specifications then that’s what you get and use, otherwise get something else. And, again, I have nothing against ibis, and if they make it happen I’ll buy it , use it, and love it. But, until then, I’ll enjoy the M experience as is and not pine for a change. Thats the point, the current M is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DadDadDaddyo Posted June 3 Share #139 Posted June 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said: I always find the "I don't need it, therefore no one should have it" arguments a bit baffling. Nobody's saying "no one should have it." Anyone who can buy a decent camera can have IBIS. It's harder to find a camera body without it than with it. I use a body with IBIS whenever I need it. When I don't need it, I use the M. I mean, isn't there just the tiniest chance that, by its very ubiquity, IBIS has changed expectations as to what must be 'required' in a camera? Do all cars need automatic transmission? Or is it today's drivers that have come to need it? Suffer? I don't "suffer," either with the six speed manual in my car, nor with my IBIS-less M. I enjoy the heck out of both! When I want to suffer, I get out the view camera... 13 hours ago, S Maclean said: It's like getting a bicycle and complaining about the lack of an engine....or a classic watch and complaining it doesnt measure your oxygen levels... Exactly! Edited June 3 by DadDadDaddyo typo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3 Share #140 Posted June 3 1 hour ago, S Maclean said: [...] Thats the point, the current M is what it is [...] Indeed and M1 to M5 were what they were too, including the M1 that had no rangefinder, and the M5 that was almost as large as a Leicaflex, then the M6 with its TTL meter, then the M7 and its auto features, the M8 with its crop factor, then the M9 and its full frame CCD, the M240 with CMOS and video, the M10 sans video and finally the M11 with 60mp in a RF body with mirrorless features. All were what they were indeed, none was identical to the others. Fortunately i believe. Wait and see what the next M will do. One of them will have some sort of IS, soon or late, i just hope it will be the rumored EVF-M or the M12 as i'm growing in age and i'm not immortal. YMMV 😎 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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