How different the 35mm KOB v4 vs 35mm V3 Summicron ?

[mottykytu]

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Hi, 

The KOB V4 35mm F2 is one of the most desire Leica lens (especially the german Version), I wonder how much different rendering the V3 compare to V4 ?

Many here say the V3 and V4 is very hard to tell apart, and for half the price of The V4, the V3 is a  bargain and best P/P Pre-ASPH 35mm
But I watch a Red-dot forum video on Youtube and the Speaker say V4 and V3 is very different rendering.

I don't know what is the truth, can you please tell me your real experience ?

[lct]

No experience of v3 sorry. Compared to v4, v3 is said to have more distortion but less focus shift and less color fringing. Review in French here for those interested.

[lebanese blonde]

I had the v3 and sold it because i got a good deal on a serviced v4.

Main difference image wise was (at least on my copies) that the v3 hat more contrast, smeary edges and a bit more glowy highlights. Center sharpness was excellent on both versions.

Another fact that is not often talked about is the longer focus throw of the v3. On close focus it gets pretty bad ergonomically because the focus tab is facing way more upwards than on the v4 (on 0.7m focus).

Builtd quality is better on the v3.

 

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

I always liked the version three Summicron.  They traded away some resolution for contrast at a time when the market was shifting away from B&W film to color.  Actually like it for B&W film too, which I shoot exclusively now.  The version three is small and well built; better built than what came afterwards.   Probably not as sharp as version four wide open, but really, there's not a bad Summicron.  It's plenty sharp.  In fact, I prefer the version three over the version four, which, after having owned several, feel is a bit overrated.  I like lenses where I can look at the neg and tell which lens took it, and this is one of them.  Contrasty with a unique at times bubbly bokeh and none of that modern over sharpness.  Version four is probably sharper at wider apertures, has a more modern, clean looking image; better for color imaging to my eye, in my limited experience with color film with these lenses.  Most of my experience with the version four dates back 20-25 years ago, so it has been some time, but that's my experience/memory.  Still have a version 3, along with the 8 element and the pre-asph Summilux.  

Edited May 24 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[mottykytu]

11 hours ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

I always liked the version three Summicron.  They traded away some resolution for contrast at a time when the market was shifting away from B&W film to color.  Actually like it for B&W film too, which I shoot exclusively now.  The version three is small and well built; better built than what came afterwards.   Probably not as sharp as version four wide open, but really, there's not a bad Summicron.  It's plenty sharp.  In fact, I prefer the version three over the version four, which, after having owned several, feel is a bit overrated.  I like lenses where I can look at the neg and tell which lens took it, and this is one of them.  Contrasty with a unique at times bubbly bokeh and none of that modern over sharpness.  Version four is probably sharper at wider apertures, has a more modern, clean looking image; better for color imaging to my eye, in my limited experience with color film with these lenses.  Most of my experience with the version four dates back 20-25 years ago, so it has been some time, but that's my experience/memory.  Still have a version 3, along with the 8 element and the pre-asph Summilux.  

would you prefer a version 3 or the 8 elements ?

Edited May 24 by mottykytu

[TomB_tx]

I used the Ver 2 for 40 years and loved the tiny size, light weight and lack of distortion. Later added an 8-element for my M3 and didn't care for the lower contrast - I thought the Summaron 2.8 M version gave better images.

When I got the first Nokton 35 1.4 I found it as sharp as my Summicron v2 (at f2) and didn't mind the distortion. Focus shift was it's negative  - cured in the v II.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

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1 hour ago, mottykytu said:

would you prefer a version 3 or the 8 elements ?

Definitely the 8 element (or the LLL replica).  Seems particularly suited for B&W film.  And I would prefer the Voightlander  Nokton knockoffs of the pre-asph Summilux to a version 3.  I might actually prefer the version 3 to the pre-aspherical Summilux, with which I have a love/hate relationship.  The 8 element, Voightlander Nokton and version 3 kind of conform to you, whereas you have to learn how to use and conform to the pre-asph Summilx.  Maybe I just haven't shot it enough, but it has some annoying quirks.  

Sometimes you just have to try these things for yourself and see if it works with your photography.  Everyone is different.  If it works, great, and if it doesn't, resell it on one of the auction sites.  If you lose a little money in the process, just view it as a rental fee.   But if you purchase wisely on the used market, maybe you make a little money.  Leica used prices just seem to keep goin up!  Check Flickr out or another of the photo sites for sample imaging from the lens.  

Edited May 24 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

40 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

I used the Ver 2 for 40 years and loved the tiny size, light weight and lack of distortion. Later added an 8-element for my M3 and didn't care for the lower contrast - I thought the Summaron 2.8 M version gave better images.

When I got the first Nokton 35 1.4 I found it as sharp as my Summicron v2 (at f2) and didn't mind the distortion. Focus shift was it's negative  - cured in the v II.

I've used these three lenses quite a bit -- the Voight Nokton, version2/3 and the 8 element -- and as you allude the imaging is so different from each other.  It offers quite a bit of variety.  I can usually look at negs under a loupe and know which lens took it.  

[mottykytu]

On 5/24/2025 at 8:30 PM, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

I've used these three lenses quite a bit -- the Voight Nokton, version2/3 and the 8 element -- and as you allude the imaging is so different from each other.  It offers quite a bit of variety.  I can usually look at negs under a loupe and know which lens took it.  

Very nice

For one only - all purpose 35mm, between those 3 which will you choose and why?

I have LLL 8 Elements but also want to add V4 KOB for the "Classic Leica Look" !

[jaapv]

On 5/24/2025 at 2:59 PM, Al Brown said:

There is a prize if you stop calling this lens KOB. You go to heaven.

I don't even know what he means.  Wait a minute - this King of Bokeh bollocks? 

[Ray Vonn]

 

On 5/24/2025 at 1:59 PM, Al Brown said:

There is a prize if you stop calling this lens KOB. You go to heaven.

 

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

I don't even know what he means.  Wait a minute - this King of Bokeh bollocks? 

I did wonder how long before the fists would start waving at the computer screen.  To be fair, it was longer than usual. 

[jaapv]

It is more of 🤣🤣  it is fascinating how a misnomer turns into a hype. 

[Ray Vonn]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It is more of 🤣🤣  it is fascinating how a misnomer turns into a hype. 

Let's spend another 40 posts talking about it.

Edited May 26 by Ray Vonn

[costa43]

24 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

The forum needs a disclaimer

To stop calling the v4 the KOB? I’d sign it. 

[darylgo]

9 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is more of 🤣🤣  it is fascinating how a misnomer turns into a hype. 

So much of Leica lore is hype and the age of the internet with it's forums and social media has served well to perpetuate and exaggerate it greatly.  If Leica makes impressive cameras/lenses and I think everyone here will agree with that, then they have contributed with a great PR department to this hype, and I only wish I could work with them and continue this long and admirable tradition.  

[jaapv]

Yes, but the guy who coined the phrase later admitted that he had never used the lens under 5.6…And the bokeh is OK for the vintage but no more than that. 

[Vanillasludge]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but the guy who coined the phrase later admitted that he had never used the lens under 5.6…And the bokeh is OK for the vintage but no more than that. 

So maybe it’s just the Prince Regent of bokeh?  We can start calling it the PROB.  When does the real KOB get back to the office?  

[jaapv]

Let’s hope he‘ll be wearing clothes then. 

[Ray Vonn]

Did I say 40? Probably should have said 140. I suggest the OP starts a new thread as this one’s now done.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

which batches have the best bokeh