Weird White Bars on Right Side of Photos – Leica M3 Issue?

[Wcuriosity]

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Hi everyone,

I’m trying to get to the bottom of some strange white bars that appear mostly on the right edge of my photos. I shoot with a Leica M3 that recently came back from a CLA. Before servicing, the technician saw one of my photos and immediately suspected the shutter curtains were out of sync—most likely causing issues at 1/500 or 1/1000 sec. That diagnosis made sense at the time.

After the CLA, I shot another roll (Kodak Vision3) and unfortunately, I’m still seeing these bars in some images. For example, if you compare frame 4 with 2, you’ll see the bar in 4 is quite noticeable, while in 3 it’s still there but more subtle. I’m fairly confident frame 4 was shot at a fast shutter speed (probably 1/500 or faster)

What’s puzzling is that even on other shots I’m sure were taken at 1/1250 or faster, the bars don’t always appear. That inconsistency makes me wonder:

Is this still a camera issue (maybe the CLA didn’t fully resolve the shutter sync)? Or could this be an artifact introduced by the lab or scanner?

Has anyone here experienced something similar—either with an M3 shutter, or with lab scans producing edge artifacts like this? I’d really appreciate your thoughts before I consider sending the camera back in.

Thanks in advance!

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[UliWer]

If it was the shutter, you probably would see black stripes, as the delayed shutter would cover the film.

The white bars obviously come from overexposure. I‘d guess your camerra has a light leak. When you have lots lof light (1. example) it leaks on your film even when the shutter is closed, when there is low light (2. example), you don‘t have the issue, with mid light (3. example) there is still some. 

[250swb]

If there is inconsistency between frames it could be due to the time between shots, so a longer time before the next photo results in more light leaking.

[Wcuriosity]

Thank you for your replies! UliWer's assumption was spot on. After checking with a torch, I found a light leak. I was able to locate it just below the metal trailing edges of the shutter curtains (if that’s the correct term) when uncocked. Interestingly, once I cock the shutter slightly, the leak disappears and the curtains seem sealed.

Now I'm wondering: could leaving the shutter in this 'slightly cocked' position act as a temporary workaround, or would that risk damaging the mechanism over time?

Surprisingly, the technician I consulted wasn’t able to find the leak—and didn’t mention anything about it—even though I had provided sample negatives showing the issue. I'm not familiar with how technicians typically handle these kinds of problems, but is fixing a leak like this generally difficult?

[105012]

Could be a light leak and a shutter issue? Partially cocking the shutter should not cause any problem. A visit to an experienced repair shop seems in order.

[Wcuriosity]

vor einer Stunde schrieb 105012:

Could be a light leak and a shutter issue? Partially cocking the shutter should not cause any problem. A visit to an experienced repair shop seems in order.

Yes, I can now confirm that it is indeed a light leak. I was able to pinpoint the source—it's coming from the metal edges of the shutter curtain on the left side when opening the film door.

Ironically, the repair shop I have recently sent the camera to for (bad) service failed to identify this, even though I had provided sample photos similar to the ones above. Their conclusion was simply: "the shutters are not synchronous." It seems they didn’t address the issue because they didn’t recognize it as a light leak.

Of course, I’m now disappointed that this wasn’t fixed, let alone identified as a light leak. I no longer feel confident in sending the camera back to the same repair shop, mainly because I don’t consider them reliable anymore—but that’s another story. I’m now considering taking it to a different repair shop to get a second opinion on the issue.

[jerzy]

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symptoms and your finding (leak is gone when you span a bit) point into direction of misaligned curtain brake. Most probably brake for closing curtain is too hard, but brakes for both curtains shall be checked.
not too complicated adjustement, with some skills can be done as well at home.

[Wcuriosity]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jerzy:

symptoms and your finding (leak is gone when you span a bit) point into direction of misaligned curtain brake. Most probably brake for closing curtain is too hard, but brakes for both curtains shall be checked.
not too complicated adjustement, with some skills can be done as well at home.

Glad to hear that we arrive to the same conclusions. As for the adjustment, do you mean loosening/increasing the tension of one of the shutter curtains? Excuse my scarce knowledge of a layman but wouldn't this have a (negative) effect on the shutter speeds?

In general, do you advise people to do that on their own?

[Don Flynn]

3 hours ago, Wcuriosity said:

Glad to hear that we arrive to the same conclusions. As for the adjustment, do you mean loosening/increasing the tension of one of the shutter curtains? Excuse my scarce knowledge of a layman but wouldn't this have a (negative) effect on the shutter speeds?

In general, do you advise people to do that on their own?

I wouldn't if it were my M3. These are 70 year old camera's that do need service from time to time. I would look this list over and decide which repair service fits your needs depending on where you live

Leica Repair Centres - Directory - Leica Blog (Matt Osborne)

I've used DAG here in the US for my M3, M5 and he currently has 2 M6's I bought used this year that I figured I better get CLA'd to be safe.

If I find another M5 I like this year I'm thinking of using Sherry at Golden Touch. She's known for her love of the M5. Don works on them but isn't a fan of the design 

 

 

[jerzy]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Wcuriosity:

do you mean loosening/increasing the tension of one of the shutter curtains?

no, this is separate adjustment, has nothing to do with tension

 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Wcuriosity:

In general, do you advise people to do that on their own

with some skills and tools (flat screwdrivers various size) brake adjustment is not complicated. On the contrary - adjustment of tension requires experience and special tools - not advisable to do it at home.
 

[Wcuriosity]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Don Flynn:

I wouldn't if it were my M3. These are 70 year old camera's that do need service from time to time. I would look this list over and decide which repair service fits your needs depending on where you live

Leica Repair Centres - Directory - Leica Blog (Matt Osborne)

I've used DAG here in the US for my M3, M5 and he currently has 2 M6's I bought used this year that I figured I better get CLA'd to be safe.

If I find another M5 I like this year I'm thinking of using Sherry at Golden Touch. She's known for her love of the M5. Don works on them but isn't a fan of the design 

 

 

Hi Don, thank you! The camera just came back from a CLA and it seems the technician did a poor job of locating the light leak. Alas, I don't trust this person anymore, even though I've asked around before sending it to him and even heard that he receives camera for CLA from a Leica store.

That being said, I assume that everything is lubricated and the risk of tightening the curtain is lower, even though I still assume that it's a risky operation. So far, this is my take, but I need some time to make a sensible decision here.

Edited May 23 by Wcuriosity

[Wcuriosity]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb jerzy:

no, this is separate adjustment, has nothing to do with tension

 

with some skills and tools (flat screwdrivers various size) brake adjustment is not complicated. On the contrary - adjustment of tension requires experience and special tools - not advisable to do it at home.
 

Thank you, Jerzy! So my best bet at the moment – if I were to do it on my own – to adjust the brake. Do you have any references/videos that explain this? So far, I couldn't really find anything except people explaining how to adjust curtain tension (which, on first sight, looked rather feasible).

[jerzy]

no, do not touch shutter springs, too dangerous. Few years ago I found attached document in net, see Fig 6 and 8. There is as well description in text how to check it. Document shows and describes M2 but in terms of curtain brake later M3 (lijke yours) are the same

leica basic repair M.pdf

[Wcuriosity]

vor 1 Minute schrieb jerzy:

no, do not touch shutter springs, too dangerous. Few years ago I found attached document in net, see Fig 6 and 8. There is as well description in text how to check it. Document shows and describes M2 but in terms of curtain brake later M3 (lijke yours) are the same

leica basic repair M.pdf 766.36 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks a lot, Jerzy! And thank you to all the others that commented so far. I feel like I've learned quite a lot already.

Just for the record: I am not too afraid to do minor things myself but I want to do it with the utmost caution which is why I want to take my time, ask around, maybe ask local stores if they can do these quick fixes for me, before I would do anything too hasty.

[Wcuriosity]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb jerzy:

no, do not touch shutter springs, too dangerous. Few years ago I found attached document in net, see Fig 6 and 8. There is as well description in text how to check it. Document shows and describes M2 but in terms of curtain brake later M3 (lijke yours) are the same

leica basic repair M.pdf 766.36 kB · 1 download

Jerzy, when I skimmed the document, I was thinking of the current state of my shutters and it currently looks like someone has shown in this forum (I'm currently not within reach of my M3): https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/133738-m2-shutter-curtain-stays-slightly-open-cause-light-leak/

I will try to provide you with an actual photograph of my camera as soon as I can.

[oldwino]

Send it back to the person who did the initial service. Explain to them that you’ve discovered the light leak, and you feel they should have found it too. Give them the chance to make it right. Sometimes, techs get rushed and can miss things. They’re human. 
If you try to “repair” it yourself, you’ve voided any warranty you have, and maybe will create additional problems. 

[Wcuriosity]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb oldwino:

Send it back to the person who did the initial service. Explain to them that you’ve discovered the light leak, and you feel they should have found it too. Give them the chance to make it right. Sometimes, techs get rushed and can miss things. They’re human. 
If you try to “repair” it yourself, you’ve voided any warranty you have, and maybe will create additional problems. 

Hey! I appreciate the suggestion, but I’m honestly not comfortable sending it back to the original technician. There were a few other issues with the service, and they forgot to return the lens cap of my summicron. They told me a week ago they’d send it back immediately, but I haven’t heard anything since despite my polite attempts to ask about the receipt (which I never received) and said cap. I’d really prefer not to go through that hassle again. I hope you see my dilemma now.

Edited May 24 by Wcuriosity

[Wcuriosity]

UPDATE: I've attached a picture of the leak, along with a photo showing the position of the shutter curtain when uncocked. This should be quite conclusive. The fogging on the right clearly comes from this source.

While researching and inspecting my camera, I discovered another leak that cannot be mapped to the curtain. And then, I found another possible source: the rangefinder window. When light hits it at a certain angle, I can see stray light entering the camera. Checking the lugs and the rewind lever as other possible sources didn't give any positive results.

Has anyone dealt with this before? I’ve read that some people recommend adding a piece of light-proof foam to the inside roof of the top plate. But well...

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[105012]

If by rangefinder window you mean the small window on the left (looking from the lens side of the camera), then there is a light shield that fits around that window. If it is missing or defective or incorrectly installed, light would leak there. There are other light shields around the camera, of course.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TomB_tx]

In your picture of the curtain through the back, the bottom of the curtain looks more "slack" than the top. Looks like uneven tension on the curtain ribbons, which males the problem worse towards the top of the picture. This needs more than a brake adjustment to really set it right.