raw In camera lens correction applied, or not?

[jrp]

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DXO Photolabs offers different lens corrections for RAW files depending on whether lens correction has been applied "in camera" or not.

My understanding from the manual is that the DNGs that the SL3 produces have no in camera lens correction applied, the raw just has metadata that allows your raw processor of choice to apply the correction to the raw data.

This all makes sense to me, but it seems odd that DXO provides an option to render files that have had the lens corrections applied "in-camera", so I thought that I'd check.

Is there a setting in the camera that switches corrections on / off (like there is for Sony, eg)?

[jaapv]

You are supposed to switch corrections off in your raw converter if so desired ( why should you? ) I’m sure that DXO can do so as well. The parameters of the lens correction as specified by the lens manufacturer and camera maker are embedded in the DNG for the converter to read and apply. Sometimes an .XMP sidecar file is used. Lens corrections in-camera are only present in .jpg files. 

[jrp]

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This is the dialogue that I get.  The alternative choice is just a plain "RAW" profile, rather than "RAW with in-camera correction".  So it doesn't know whether for the SL3, the in camera correction has already been applied to the RAW, or not.  Neither do I.  I assume from what you say "not" and that DXO will apply its own measurements for the lens, rather than the ones specified in the picture's metadata.

But it would be good to know.

[LocalHero1953]

I would read it differently: you have a choice between either applying the corrections recorded in-camera, not applied but included with the DNG, or the DNG with no corrections applied. The language DXO uses is ambiguous, but conforms with what I know of DXO - which can display Q files, for example, with or without Leica's lens corrections.

[jaapv]

The basis of DNG is the pure raw data recorded in a file based on TIFF 6.0 plus EXIF added including the instructions for corrections. Additionally there can be a ..XMP file contained in the .DNG with extra instructions. The conversion software can optionally apply these instructions or not. The DNG in itself is not an image file like for instance .jpg but a container file for data, so no corrections have been applied yet. 
I read the DXO dialogue to ask you whether the instructions placed by the camera in the DNG should be applied or not. I would advise ticking the box. The grammar is indeed unclear but the word ambiguity is well chosen. 

[UliWer]

Are L-mount lenses corrected against distortion, or does the camera apply the necessary correction?

I wonder why Leica doesn‘t publish any details about distortion of SL lenses as they do for M-lenses.

[jrp]

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Ok, so is the choice between Leica’s corrections or dxo’s, or are DXO corrections applied afterwards in both cases?

[jaapv]

31 minutes ago, UliWer said:

Are L-mount lenses corrected against distortion, or does the camera apply the necessary correction?

I wonder why Leica doesn‘t publish any details about distortion of SL lenses as they do for M-lenses.

Because L lenses are a hybrid design and M lenses purely optical. The optical part of L lenses was designed with a mandatory last digital step in mind, M lenses for optimal optical performance with a digital correction of residual aberrations as an option. 

[UliWer]

Well, I understand „hybrid design“ as distortion is not corrected optically but digitally. So I think this correction is applied in camera. Does this happen on the DNG-level like the correction of vignetting for M-lenses or is only applied by the Raw-converter?

Edited May 18 by UliWer

[Photoworks]

DxO does a good job of removing lens distortion. I use DxO Pure Raw, and I am very happy with it.

DNG have some conservative correction in metadata, you see the results in Lightroom better that other programs.

I use mostly Capture one and recently the image correction for distortion on the SL3 are not applied.  
Not sure why, I see the 24-90mm at 24 black corners and pillow distortion. and have to manually adjust it.

Some M lenses, like the 21 SEM and Leica adapter, get an in-camera shading correction and vignetting that works very well. It is burned into the DNG and can not be removed. It probably removes some wide-angle flagging effect from other lenses in the Leica lens portfolio.

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, UliWer said:

Well, I understand „hybrid design“ as distortion is not corrected optically but digitally. So I think this correction is applied in camera. Does this happen on the DNG-level like the correction of vignetting for M-lenses or is only applied by the Raw-converter?

The DXO text suggests the raw converter.

[fngl51]

21 hours ago, Photoworks said:

DxO does a good job of removing lens distortion. I use DxO Pure Raw, and I am very happy with it.

DNG have some conservative correction in metadata, you see the results in Lightroom better that other programs.

I use mostly Capture one and recently the image correction for distortion on the SL3 are not applied.  
Not sure why, I see the 24-90mm at 24 black corners and pillow distortion. and have to manually adjust it.

Some M lenses, like the 21 SEM and Leica adapter, get an in-camera shading correction and vignetting that works very well. It is burned into the DNG and can not be removed. It probably removes some wide-angle flagging effect from other lenses in the Leica lens portfolio.

In Capture One, under the Shape tab (on default installations) there is a lens correction tool. The lens correction tool can also be added to other tabs. When I import a raw file into capture one, the lens profile (if available) is automatically selected. The 24-90 profile should be selected, but I note that there is no profiel for the 24-70 Vario Elmarit. TIn that tool,  you can make the desired corrections for chromatic aberration, diffraction, distortion, sharpness and light fall-off.

[Photoworks]

15 minutes ago, fngl51 said:

In Capture One, under the Shape tab (on default installations) there is a lens correction tool. The lens correction tool can also be added to other tabs. When I import a raw file into capture one, the lens profile (if available) is automatically selected. The 24-90 profile should be selected, but I note that there is no profiel for the 24-70 Vario Elmarit. TIn that tool,  you can make the desired corrections for chromatic aberration, diffraction, distortion, sharpness and light fall-off.

Yes, but in the case of 24-90, it is not working.  the sigma 24-70 has a profile, and 14-24 is not working .

I know where it is, but it is not taking the correction  in the software

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[fngl51]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Yes, but in the case of 24-90, it is not working.  the sigma 24-70 has a profile, and 14-24 is not working .

I know where it is, but it is not taking the correction  in the software

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Perhaps you need to reach out to Capture One technical support. Seems like the problem might be on their end.

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, fngl51 said:

Perhaps you need to reach out to Capture One technical support. Seems like the problem might be on their end.

I think so too, and I did a few time, but the new structured company is less responsive than it used to be.

But DxO takes lens correction to the next level. I use it when needed. But they are slow in supporting new lenses and camera combinations.

[Luke_Miller]

8 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I know where it is, but it is not taking the correction  in the software.

In your Lens Correction Panel it appears you have distortion correction at zero.  I normally use 100%.

[Luke_Miller]

Follow up to previous post.

It appears that Capture One provides the user the ability to regulate how much of the lens SDC data is applied to the image.  In Sean Reid's Reid Reviews site he often compares lens performance with and without the SDC (Software Distortion Corrections) appliued.  In some cases the affect is significant, particularly in the corners, and the user might find it advantageous  to reduce the ammount of correction applied.  Capture One defaults to zero correction.  Lightroom autmatically applies the full SDC and the user has no ability to affect it.

[Photoworks]

38 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

Follow up to previous post.

It appears that Capture One provides the user the ability to regulate how much of the lens SDC data is applied to the image.  In Sean Reid's Reid Reviews site he often compares lens performance with and without the SDC (Software Distortion Corrections) appliued.  In some cases the affect is significant, particularly in the corners, and the user might find it advantageous  to reduce the ammount of correction applied.  Capture One defaults to zero correction.  Lightroom autmatically applies the full SDC and the user has no ability to affect it.

i think that is positive, but the new version that came out yesterday fixed the issue 😉

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

Follow up to previous post.

It appears that Capture One provides the user the ability to regulate how much of the lens SDC data is applied to the image.  In Sean Reid's Reid Reviews site he often compares lens performance with and without the SDC (Software Distortion Corrections) appliued.  In some cases the affect is significant, particularly in the corners, and the user might find it advantageous  to reduce the ammount of correction applied.  Capture One defaults to zero correction.  Lightroom autmatically applies the full SDC and the user has no ability to affect it.

I just got some insight that the manufacturer's profile comes from the camera and data in the RAW files. 
It is camera-dependent, and the Leica SL3 is part of it. For example, the 14-24mm lens has the correction from the camera, but there is no calibration from Capture One at this time. 
DxO uses the same data, but achieves a better result in removing the pincushion distortion. I run DxO raw for some shots from Capture one and output a DNG back to my Capture One session.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[glini]

I had the same thought with my SL-2 files.

According to DXO support:

 

In profiles for RAW images in L-mount you have:

• Lens (RAW)
• Lens (RAW with in-camera correction)

It’s a bit tricky but the reason is a firmware update of Leica cameras:

• on images RAW from Panasonic and Sigma cameras you don’t have embedded correction from the camera even if it is turned on.
• on images RAW from Leica cameras, since the update of October 2022, vignetting correction is applied 

So you have to choose accordingly, preferably don’t download both.
We hope to improve the process soon but it’s not ready yet.

 

I’ve asked if something has changed with the 6.2 firmware but still waiting. So far my workflow is to use the raw + lens correction with my SL2 dngs.