Migrating from a CL to an M typ 240 -- pros and cons?

[elambo]

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Not bringing money into the equation, I'm entertaining the idea of switching from my current daily camera -- a CL -- to an M240. Why? Because I like the images I've seen of the M a bit more than what I tend to get from my CL (the M is not as sharp but there's a quality baked into most images that I enjoy) AND I'm feeling some love for simplified shooting. Less about the tech and menus etc., more about the basics. I also have to admit that there's an allure to the M models that's probably partially involved.

For those who know both models, are there blatant pros and cons that I should have in mind before I do something silly and trade one for the other? I suppose manual vs. auto focus would be a major difference. I'm comfortable with the camera handling it but perhaps the M makes manual focusing fun and elevates the experience?

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[lykaman]

6 minutes ago, elambo said:

Not bringing money into the equation, I'm entertaining the idea of switching from my current daily camera -- a CL -- to an M240. Why? Because I like the images I've seen of the M a bit more than what I tend to get from my CL (the M is not as sharp but there's a quality baked into most images that I enjoy) AND I'm feeling some love for simplified shooting. Less about the tech and menus etc., more about the basics. I also have to admit that there's an allure to the M models that's probably partially involved.

For those who know both models, are there blatant pros and cons that I should have in mind before I do something silly and trade one for the other? I suppose manual vs. auto focus would be a major difference. I'm comfortable with the camera handling it but perhaps the M makes manual focusing fun and elevates the experience?

You’ve got ‘the itch’  - rent an M with a couple of lenses.. See how you feel after the actual experience.. 🍷

[lct]

Have you used M lenses on the CL? If so, you'll find some common points when using the M240 in LV mode, but LV is not its forte, especially with its sluggish EVF. In RF mode, the M240 is a rangefinder, i.e. a different beast with which you'd better have some experience before deciding.

[elambo]

16 minutes ago, lykaman said:

You’ve got ‘the itch’  - rent an M with a couple of lenses.. See how you feel after the actual experience.. 🍷

Now why didn't I think of that?

I may indeed rent, but I'm still curious what I might expect longterm. A week's rental may not tell me what I should know.

[lykaman]

8 minutes ago, elambo said:

Now why didn't I think of that?

I may indeed rent, but I'm still curious what I might expect longterm. A week's rental may not tell me what I should know.

Long term you will get slightly different results from the MP240, but nothing outstandingly different. I had the M-P240 Safari Set. Had it not been for my accident and ruined eyesight I may well still be using the 240. My CL offers excellent results.. 🍻

Edited April 7 by lykaman

[jaapv]

My experience is that I find it easier to tweak th CL colour to my taste tho I ever found the M240. I sold mine shortly after I got a CL. 

[Chris W]

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I didn't particularly like the output of the M240, so switched to an M10 which I'm really happy about.

Using an M is like going back to the past, quite similar to shooting film (slow). Using a CL is just the same as any modern small format camera.

Things you'll notice...

You'll lose the crop of the CL sensor for oner. The M is manual focus only, and the rangefinder focussing method is not for everyone. I love it.

To me the M is all about the rangefinder and I am shocked when I see people holding the camera away from their face and using the screen.

I agree with the above. Rent an M. You'll know in a week whether the focussing works for you.

[LocalHero1953]

I went from the M240 to the CL. I didn't sell the M240 initially, but after I bought the SL as well, the M240 got squeezed out, so I sold it.

You ask for blatant differences: obviously AF vs MF and EVF vs OVF. Liveview and EVF on the M240 are mainly useful for long/wide/macro lenses and slow photography, but are also useful for checking/adjusting the rangefinder calibration. 

I had no trouble with the M240's image quality and colour. The sensors are the same resolution, and sharpness can be made the same for both. Neither are great low light performers by current standards, but then current noise reduction s/w can extend the low light envelope.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I like working with the CL, I thought about the M240 and did some comparisons with someone who owned one. I liked the images on the CL better, interestingly the CL did marginally better at high ISO, but both maxed out at ISO 1600, acceptable at 3200, but some antinoise software would help there. I am thinking of an M10-P, M10-R or even an M11, as the M11 used prices are quite close to the M10-R used. I don't see the M240 as an upgrade to the CL.  

[elambo]

12 hours ago, Chris W said:

The M is manual focus only, and the rangefinder focussing method is not for everyone.

That's my largest initial concern, and I'd need to try it to know if it's for me. In *theory* I'd be fine with manual but I know that manual on one camera is not the same as another.

[Torpille]

I'm not sure you'll like the m240's output. 
I have the cl and the m10 the images are different. 
The m10's dngs are very nice and if you want something above the CL then the m10 seems more suitable. 
The m240 is old-fashioned, whereas the CL and m10 share the same technology and a similar interface. 
The M optics on the CL are very good, and the size makes it a real mini M. 
A 28mm gives a 42mm not far from the king q3 43. 
A set-up I appreciate. 

And after years of using the CL, I haven't found more versatility in any other brand except Fuji, but using the M lens, the CL remains in first place.  

Personally, leaving the CL and its autofocus for an M... no, because I need the choice.

Completing the CL with an M10xxx means going further in my photographic approach and learning to photograph differently by accepting to make a few concessions. 

[elambo]

21 hours ago, Torpille said:

I'm not sure you'll like the m240's output. 
I have the cl and the m10 the images are different. 
The m10's dngs are very nice and if you want something above the CL then the m10 seems more suitable. 
The m240 is old-fashioned, whereas the CL and m10 share the same technology and a similar interface. 
The M optics on the CL are very good, and the size makes it a real mini M. 
A 28mm gives a 42mm not far from the king q3 43. 
A set-up I appreciate. 

And after years of using the CL, I haven't found more versatility in any other brand except Fuji, but using the M lens, the CL remains in first place.  

Personally, leaving the CL and its autofocus for an M... no, because I need the choice.

Completing the CL with an M10xxx means going further in my photographic approach and learning to photograph differently by accepting to make a few concessions. 

Good perspective. And I think it's relevant to me. I'm beginning to believe that my photos wouldn't take a step forward with the M. There's still some appeal to have a simplified camera, but it's not difficult to keep the CL simple by using only the basics. Certainly there's that allure of the "M" and I need to get over that.

I greatly miss riding motorcycles and often wish I still had one. But renting one for the weekend could curb the Jonesing. Same could be said about an M. I've started getting prices but I think it's tough to justify the cost. Your post above helps reveal that a camera swap probably isn't a good idea.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

The question I'm going through is which M10, I would like the M10-R but prices have gone way up, more res than the CL quiet shutter. The M10-P is 24mp but has the quiet shutter. Then there is the initial M10, a louder shutter but the price is just a little above the type240. I also thought of going for an M11 but the price is high and I am not sure if my older Leica lenses, 1972 is the newest one I have, would work well with the high res.

[lct]

50 minutes ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

I also thought of going for an M11 but the price is high and I am not sure if my older Leica lenses, 1972 is the newest one I have, would work well with the high res.

All my LTM and M-mount lenses work fine on the M11. The earlier one is a LTM Elmar 35/3.5 from 1948. Just a snap with it here. Great results with Summicron's 35 and 50 from the 60s too. Also with lenses difficult to use on other M bodies, like Super-Angulon 21/3.4. FWIW.

[Dazzajl]

Pros of swapping, it's an M

Cons of swapping, it's an M

I think it's a love or hate and camera and even if you love it, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll love it every single day but it's absolutely something every photographer should try if they can. The CL and the 240 are both long obsolete now, so if you did find yourself wanting to go back the other way, it shouldn't be too costly.  

I have the 246 and then got an SL to use with the M lenses when I wanted that easier life of TTL and live view. The cost of the original SL now makes them something of a bargain. In Leica terms anyway.

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

Pros of swapping, it's an M

Cons of swapping, it's an M

Yes and no with no disrespect, as there are M and M cameras. Was true before the M11, as earlier M bodies were mediocre at best in LV mode but the M11 is a biface camera, both rangefinder and mirrorless camera. Coming from a mirrorless camera like the digital CL, the OP may feel at ease with the M11, the same way as i do as user of both cameras. Only little 😉 issue, the price. I would wait and see announces to be made this month. Given that the 64GB M11 is discontinued, it could become more affordable on the 2nd hand market.

[Dazzajl]

14 minutes ago, lct said:

Yes and no with no disrespect, as there are M and M cameras. Was true before the M11, as earlier M bodies were mediocre at best in LV mode but the M11 is a biface camera, both rangefinder and mirrorless camera. Coming from a mirrorless camera like the digital CL, the OP may feel at ease with the M11, the same way as i do as user of both cameras. Only little 😉 issue, the price. I would wait and see announces to be made this month. Given that the 64GB M11 is discontinued, it could become more affordable on the 2nd hand market.

Very valid. I had taken from the post that it was just the 240 on the table here. And yes, price; that does rear it's head quite a lot when discussing Leicas doesn't it 

[geoffreyg]

A  few thoughts - had an M240 and never really connected with it. The extra width just didn't feel right. The CL (used for the past 3-4 yrs) is easier to use and more flexible. There were some tests of CL with L lenses against an M240 and M lenses, and remarkably the CL fared very well. Just tell the self "its a mini 240". 

The M10 is a different animal - the M10M is a delight, and the shutter sublime. Don't know whether a n M10 or M10P or R would work for you, but that would be on my list. The M11 is better in many ways, but don't care for the shutter. 

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[tom0511]

Owning both systems I would say its more about the rangefinder, seeing also outside the frame, no delay or blackout, and the ismplicity of the M which are standing out, as well as the many available old, modern, etc. etc. lenses.

For the CL it would be more flexibility regarding focal length (zooms, tele etc.), smaller size, autofocus which are advantages.

 

 

[lykaman]

I had and used both, currently running with the CL. Two completely different systems, the best way is to rent and compare.. 🍻