M8 advice needed please

[warb 1]

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Hello all,

I have just bought an M8 but am used to using HP5 in my analogue Leica. I notice that with ISO set to 160, f4 at 1/500 sec for example tranlates to 2.8 at 1/500 sec on the M8. Does that sound right or should I reset the ISO to aquire consistency ? Thank you in advance for any help to a digital newbie. regards.

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[jeri]

Apparently one of the light meters has a deviation. In any case, it is a difference of one stop, which is not significant. It is worth checking whether the "set up" of the Leica M8 is not aimed at an underexposure mode. In any case, I would not panic, since ISO levels in digital cameras are not necessarily the same as ISO values of traditional photographic films. These are more of a translation into the language of photographers, for the electronic amplification modes of the signals received by the sensor.

[photophile]

I always underexpose (-ev) by 1/3 to 2/3 stops on the M8.

[jeri]

I've never heard of resetting ISO values in a camera.
You can reset the camera, and then for example you can set yourself up to three options to choose from. For example: staying in automatic ISO up to the value you set. Staying at a fixed ISO of 160 or any other value you choose. And if you work with DNG files, especially in challenging lighting conditions, you can set the exposure compensation level in the camera to minus three stops. And so by using programs like Photoshop or Capture One, you can open the files, and get a quality photo product that is beyond the capabilities of the camera's processor.

[jaapv]

Analogue ISO is not the same as digital ISO. The ISO sheet for film is defined by densitometry, however for sensor sensitivity it is defined by equivalence to film. This basically gives camera makers the freedom to deviate from film ISO -and each other- considerably, as the image densities are set outside the camera in raw conversion or inside the camera (JPG) by firmware. So a difference of one stop really tells us nothing. This was especially apparent in the earlier days of digital photography, nowadays there is slightly more convergence.  So there is nothing wrong with the meter or your camera, just compensate by experience. Setting a blanket correction is not wise, as each subject and shooting situation is different. However, easy to correct in postprocessing, but one tends to lose dynamic range - so better to avoid blown highlights in the camera on a case-by-case basis. 

On top is that the sensor of the M8 is ISO-invariant, the ISO value you set in the camera is basically irrelevant -just amplification- and only influences the brightness of the LCD. (provided you expose correctly) 

The main takeaway: don't overthink this, digital photography asks for a different approach to the same basic techniques.

One essential advice to photographers coming fresh from film:  DON'T shoot JPG, learn to postprocess. It is half the creative process!  You throw away a lot of quality and data if you let camera do your work for you. JPGs are prints from a Kodak booth at the chemist's.

 

[adan]

What jaapv said.....mostly 🤪

Film ISOs are determined by measuring the shadow density/detail of film negatives with a densitometer. At what metering speed will the shadows (4-5 stops darker than 18% medium gray) still have just-detectable detail, when chemically processed in a specified way?

Since a digital camera does not produce physically-measurable negative densities, the ISO (international Standards Organization) had to come up with a whole different measuring system and scale it approximately to the film standards.

Briefly - while film ISO is determined by measuring the shadow density (amount of silver or color-dye blocking light- but see below), Digital ISO is determined by measuring the brightness of a specified tone (usually classic 18% reflective "medium gray" card) in the positive picture produced. In sRGB color space (i.e. really only applicable to an sRGB-jpg-straight-out-of-camera). Using five different methods.

On top of which manufacturers are allowed to form their own opinion of the ISO values, if they choose.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed

The ISO (International Organization of Standards) 12232:2019 standard

The ISO standard ISO 12232:2006[75] gave digital still camera manufacturers a choice of five different techniques for determining the exposure index rating at each sensitivity setting provided by a particular camera model. Three of the techniques in ISO 12232:2006 were carried over from the 1998 version of the standard, while two new techniques allowing for measurement of JPEG output files were introduced from CIPA DC-004. Depending on the technique selected, the exposure index rating could depend on the sensor sensitivity, the sensor noise, and the appearance of the resulting image. The standard specified the measurement of light sensitivity of the entire digital camera system and not of individual components such as digital sensors, although Kodak has reported] using a variation to characterize the sensitivity of two of their sensors in 2001.

The Recommended Exposure Index (REI) technique, new in the 2006 version of the standard, allows the manufacturer to specify a camera model's EI choices arbitrarily. The choices are based solely on the manufacturer's opinion of what EI values produce well-exposed sRGB images at the various sensor sensitivity settings. 

BTW, if you check Ilford's own film data sheets, Ilford specifically says it also does not follow ISO guidelines exactly, but forms its own opinion of the effective speed of its films.

See: page 1, bottom: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1903/product/691/

Exposure rating

It should be noted that the exposure index (EI) range recommended for HP5 Plus is based on a practical evaluation of film speed and is not based on foot speed, as is the ISO standard.

[jaapv]

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Yes, thank you 🙂 for precising but the design of the M8 was finalized before 2006 (introduced November 2006), so it could not comply with ISO 12232:2006, and probably followed the Kodak method.

[warb 1]

Thanks everyone.

[farnz]

The important thing to remember when moving from shooting film to shooting an M8 is that it behaves like slide or reversal film, not like print film.  So if you blow the highlights with the M8, unlike print film you won't be able to recover very much.  But if you underexpose then you have much more latitude to recover shadow detail (like slide film) - hence the comments about setting exposure compensation to -1/3 or -2/3 on the M8.

Pete.

[Ernstk]

On 3/28/2025 at 4:49 PM, jeri said:

you can set the exposure compensation level in the camera to minus three stops. 

Minus 3 stops is way too much exposure compensation. That's -3 EV.

Expose for the highlights and set EV compensation to -1/3 or -2/3