M11 & M11M use case

[Photoworks]

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What I didn't like about the M10M when shooting the M11 was the difference in shutter speed limitations and minimum ISO.

Keep in mind I was shooting with Summilux and Noctilux lenses and it was always the game of ND filter on and off when switching lenses.

But the M11 converted to B&W files are so good that I don't use the M10M anymore.

[bcaslis]

I had both M11 and M11M for a while. The case for the M11M is that it's files are special but the case against it are:

1. You need to use and change filters for the best image. With the M11 I can do this in post
2. Extra care for not blowing highlights
3. With an M11 file converted to B&W you can use the Adobe AI noise reduction (which does not work with M11M files) so up to about 20K ISO I would say the M11 files have an advantage.

But the M11M still calls to me. It's a special camera but not very practical unless you want to commit to B&W only.

 

[smuseby]

And 4), it is expensive. 
Blowing highlights- with its dynamic range, can’t you set it to underexpose and leave it?

Filters - I’m guessing that’s mostly for ND?

I’m still on the fence. It clearly would not be a rational purchase for me.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. 

[bcaslis]

1 hour ago, smuseby said:

And 4), it is expensive. 
Blowing highlights- with its dynamic range, can’t you set it to underexpose and leave it?

Filters - I’m guessing that’s mostly for ND? I’m still on the fence. It clearly would not be a rational purchase for me.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. 

Yes you can underexpose to prevent blowing out highlights but the correct underexposure will vary from shot to shot. The highlight weighted metering helps with this.

Filters are mainly for increasing contrast. By default monochrome files are the flatest deadest files you have ever seen. They require good processing. But if you want inky black skies you will want to use a red filter. For people probably a yellow or orange filter, etc... 

This is something you can easily process in post in an M11 but for the monochrome you will really need to use filters. Two examples below. The first without filter, the second with red filter.

 

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Edited March 22 by bcaslis

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, bcaslis said:

I had both M11 and M11M for a while. The case for the M11M is that it's files are special but the case against it are:

1. You need to use and change filters for the best image. With the M11 I can do this in post
2. Extra care for not blowing highlights
3. With an M11 file converted to B&W you can use the Adobe AI noise reduction (which does not work with M11M files) so up to about 20K ISO I would say the M11 files have an advantage.

But the M11M still calls to me. It's a special camera but not very practical unless you want to commit to B&W only.

Adobe's AI Denoise now supports monochrome files.

Monochrome sensor has less noise, more detail and a focus on B&W when shooting.

[smuseby]

Filters, requiring thought, slow down the creation of a photograph. Both automation and digital have resulted in amazing cameras, but for me, they have also resulted in sloppiness. The appeal of the M11M for me is both my love of black-and-white, and the requirement to slow down, and think through each shot.

Once I’ve sold my M6 and Typ246, I will have disposed of my guilt for buying what I’m thinking will be my last camera purchase. It should be fun. 

No more debate here. 

This thread has been very helpful - thanks to all of you who have contributed. 

[bcaslis]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Adobe's AI Denoise now supports monochrome files.

Monochrome sensor has less noise, more detail and a focus on B&W when shooting.

You're right. I wonder when they changed that.

[setuporg]

So once I got rid of both M11P and M11D, I am using the previous pairs, M9P/M, M240/246, M10R/M, more often and evenly.  I don't see any reason not to love M246.  It's sufficient in most situations.  Plus it shoots B&W rangefinder videos, the only camera in the world to do so!  I'd stick with that and save for M12.

[Derbyshire Man]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:03 PM, bcaslis said:

Yes you can underexpose to prevent blowing out highlights but the correct underexposure will vary from shot to shot. The highlight weighted metering helps with this.

Filters are mainly for increasing contrast. By default monochrome files are the flatest deadest files you have ever seen. They require good processing. But if you want inky black skies you will want to use a red filter. For people probably a yellow or orange filter, etc... 

This is something you can easily process in post in an M11 but for the monochrome you will really need to use filters. Two examples below. The first without filter, the second with red filter.

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

In my years of film photography I sometimes used filters. They were always a PITA though as the very next shot after you put it on was a portrait which they are typically not good for! People also have this odd thought that they increase the contrast in general, not really I think, just in blue areas with a red filter for example, not some significant mystery overall impact on the image that some suggest. However, even with the monochrome sensors, AI in combination with a linear filter in Lightroom enable such effective impact on skies for increasing contrast in the sky alone that there are simply other techniques to achieve 99% the same thing if you drop the need to ape historical techniques.

That said, I own both M11P/D and M11M and I'm more than happy with the conversions on the M11, the M11M advantages lie in resolution, very dark situations and psychology!

[Photoworks]

22 hours ago, setuporg said:

I don't see any reason not to love M246.  It's sufficient in most situations.  Plus it shoots B&W rangefinder videos, the only camera in the world to do so!

🤦‍♀️

[setuporg]

It's harder and harder to justify upgrading a Monochrom, because they already got an amazing ISO range.  Eg an upgrade from M10M to M11M makes even less sense than M10R to M11x.

[Stevejack]

On 3/25/2025 at 7:44 AM, setuporg said:

It's harder and harder to justify upgrading a Monochrom, because they already got an amazing ISO range.  Eg an upgrade from M10M to M11M makes even less sense than M10R to M11x.

I'm not sure too many people are upgrading Leicas due to image quality improvements..?  What made you pick up an M11 for the short time you had it? Were you chasing better image quality or were you looking for better battery life / Visoflex / internal storage ..or were you just curious?

[setuporg]

14 hours ago, Stevejack said:

I'm not sure too many people are upgrading Leicas due to image quality improvements..?  What made you pick up an M11 for the short time you had it? Were you chasing better image quality or were you looking for better battery life / Visoflex / internal storage ..or were you just curious?

Very insightful! I've been on the fence because of IQ but wanted long battery life, USB-C, background push, SSD, etc. For a year, I used M11-P almost exclusively among the Ms and even added the D.  When that one's SSD failed, I got rid of both. Also, the IQ was too Sony-like, and it nagged at me... Then the electronics failure had been just the last straw. This is a Leica lesson: not to chase shiny new things but stick with the good old things.

Edited March 26 by setuporg

[Stevejack]

5 hours ago, setuporg said:

Very insightful! I've been on the fence because of IQ but wanted long battery life, USB-C, background push, SSD, etc. For a year, I used M11-P almost exclusively among the Ms and even added the D.  When that one's SSD failed, I got rid of both. Also, the IQ was too Sony-like, and it nagged at me... Then the electronics failure had been just the last straw. This is a Leica lesson: not to chase shiny new things but stick with the good old things.

Leica needs to get on top of their hardware faults for sure. My first M11 was swapped immediately for a dodgy top button, and their freezing issues took way too long to solve.

I can't agree so much with the IQ and I don't think I could ever make a hardware decision based on a software output. It's not like film where you're stuck with the colour characteristics of the emulsion, you can tweak to taste very easily.
But absolutely if the camera itself is frustrating me I start thinking too much about it and then I'm no longer thinking about the photos I'm trying to make. Best way I can explain it is that a camera that doesn't suit me feels like I'm driving someone else's car, but I can't adjust the seat and mirrors. 

[SrMi]

On 3/22/2025 at 9:03 PM, bcaslis said:

Yes you can underexpose to prevent blowing out highlights but the correct underexposure will vary from shot to shot. The highlight weighted metering helps with this.

Filters are mainly for increasing contrast. By default monochrome files are the flatest deadest files you have ever seen. They require good processing. But if you want inky black skies you will want to use a red filter. For people probably a yellow or orange filter, etc... 

This is something you can easily process in post in an M11 but for the monochrome you will really need to use filters. Two examples below. The first without filter, the second with red filter.

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

It is possible to do it quite a bit in the post. Here is Ansel's "Moon over Hernandez" first and later versions: