Sigma DG DN 300-600mm f4

[helged]

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New long tele lens from Sigma, 300-600mm, f4, 4 kg) https://www.sigma-imaging.se/300-600mm-f4-dg-os-sports

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[helged]

Re weight, with the Sigma 300-600mm f4 is coming at 4 kg. In comparison, Canon RF 600mm f4 has a wight of 3 kg, and the Nikkor 600mm f4 is 3.8 kg.

Compared to the other long-lens Sigma offerings: 500mm f5.6 is (only) 1.4 kg; 60-600mm f4.5-6.3 is 2.5 kg, and 150-600 f5-6.3 is 2.1 kg. 

So the Sigma 300-600mm f4 is heavy for extended handheld use; but the focal length is convenient for sport/wildlife photographers. Will be interesting to see the bokeh of the lens, how flare is handled, as well as the image quality with the Sigma (or Leica) 1.4x and 2x converters. 

Edited February 24 by helged

[jaapv]

Seems a bit redundant next to the two other 600 mm zooms. One stop faster is  not very relevant with cameras that offer clean high ISO.  Especially as wildlife and sports photographers are gradually starting to appreciate the freedom of reasonably light telezooms ( not only by Sigma). with effective OIS. This one is mostly useful shooting on a tripod from a hide or the sidelines of a sports event etc.  And the lighter offerings can do so as well besides their mobility. And likely faster AF. 
Maybe Sigma was thinking of surveillance and military use as well As a Sports lens it will be pretty robust and water resistant  

IMO this lens will mostly appeal to the limited group of sports photographers and static wildlife/bird on tripods. And even then there are many more versatile offerings.  

[helged]

58 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Seems a bit redundant next to the two other 600 mm zooms. One stop faster is  not very relevant with cameras that offer clean high ISO.  Especially as wildlife and sports photographers are gradually starting to appreciate the freedom of reasonably light telezooms ( not only by Sigma). with effective OIS. This one is mostly useful shooting on a tripod from a hide or the sidelines of a sports event etc.  And the lighter offerings can do so as well besides their mobility. And likely faster AF. 
Maybe Sigma was thinking of surveillance and military use as well As a Sports lens it will be pretty robust and water resistant  

IMO this lens will mostly appeal to the limited group of sports photographers and static wildlife/bird on tripods. And even then there are many more versatile offerings.  

But good for the L-mount system, it is. 

[Ivar B]

Maybe this is what is needed for professional sports photographers and the like to start using the L-system?

Again, very impressed by Sigma, though.

[frankchn]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

Seems a bit redundant next to the two other 600 mm zooms. One stop faster is  not very relevant with cameras that offer clean high ISO.  Especially as wildlife and sports photographers are gradually starting to appreciate the freedom of reasonably light telezooms ( not only by Sigma). with effective OIS. This one is mostly useful shooting on a tripod from a hide or the sidelines of a sports event etc.  And the lighter offerings can do so as well besides their mobility. And likely faster AF. 
Maybe Sigma was thinking of surveillance and military use as well As a Sports lens it will be pretty robust and water resistant  

IMO this lens will mostly appeal to the limited group of sports photographers and static wildlife/bird on tripods. And even then there are many more versatile offerings.  

I think for sports and BIF, OIS is not that useful for the actual image capture -- you still want 1/1000 or faster to freeze motion and thus every stop of light you get helps.

The target market is whoever is buying the RF 600L/FE 600GM/Z 600 S TC, and this + an SL3-S or an A1II is still cheaper than buying those primes alone.

[SrMi]

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11 minutes ago, frankchn said:

I think for sports and BIF, OIS is not that useful for the actual image capture -- you still want 1/1000 or faster to freeze motion and thus every stop of light you get helps.

Stabilizing the viewfinder helps a lot with long lenses. A BIF image is often better when some motion blur is visible, which means using shutter speeds below 1 /(2 x focal length).

[jaapv]

 

50 minutes ago, frankchn said:

I think for sports and BIF, OIS is not that useful for the actual image capture -- you still want 1/1000 or faster to freeze motion and thus every stop of light you get helps.

The target market is whoever is buying the RF 600L/FE 600GM/Z 600 S TC, and this + an SL3-S or an A1II is still cheaper than buying those primes alone.

Depends on the wildlife photographer one is The bush is not a fraction of the dynamic place that David Attenborough would have us believe. I have done wildlife since 1988 and I find OIS a blessing if only for the stabilization of the EVF. BIF is different but only a small section of wildlife - and needs lenses as light and agile as possible. 
I would never choose this one as a wildlife lens. I even passed on the 60-600 in favour of the 150-600 which is lighter and more agile. I cannot imagine hiking in 40 Centigrade with this monster on my yearly month in Africa. I never have a tripod with me. Completely useless as it nails you to the floor. A beanbag is the thing to use There is always a branch or something around and the camera remains mobile. 

[LD_50]

10 hours ago, jaapv said:

Seems a bit redundant next to the two other 600 mm zooms. One stop faster is  not very relevant with cameras that offer clean high ISO.  Especially as wildlife and sports photographers are gradually starting to appreciate the freedom of reasonably light telezooms ( not only by Sigma). with effective OIS. This one is mostly useful shooting on a tripod from a hide or the sidelines of a sports event etc.  And the lighter offerings can do so as well besides their mobility. And likely faster AF. 
Maybe Sigma was thinking of surveillance and military use as well As a Sports lens it will be pretty robust and water resistant  

IMO this lens will mostly appeal to the limited group of sports photographers and static wildlife/bird on tripods. And even then there are many more versatile offerings.  

My experience has been that with longer lenses, the larger aperture aids the camera’s AF capabilities. This is even more true when you start to consider teleconverter use. It also helps keep ISO down, but to your point that’s been negated with newer sensors. 

[jaapv]

I don’t use AF that often. I find that branches and twigs in front often confuse it. If AF I normally use spot focus. Manual is easier and more reliable. I often shoot at 600 or 840 and have my tricks to make it easy. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It'll depend on the optics. Simple as that. The 500 5.6 is sharper than either of the Sigma zooms. And if this lens has close to *prime* IQ in a zoom range then it's a keeper. 4kg is relatively heavy but there's no other zooms like this and it's lighter than a 300 f4, 400 f4, 500 f4 and a 600f4. Even if the zoom optics were as good (they won't be) there's 1.5 stops more background blur which is nice for busy backgrounds when your movement is limited.

I'm seriously looking at this. It'll depend on the new Panasonic S1Rii as to whether it's in L or E mount. I'd rather L mount because Sony restricts TC use to Sony lenses. 420-840mm f5.6 would be pretty handy if the S1Rii is up to the task. I wouldn't consider it on a SL3 body due to the shutter shock issues and lack or EFCS. No point having great long lenses if the camera is taking away some of the detail. It's for Panasonic bodies, really.

For sure it's a gimbal mount lens. The two next trips I have, both have gimbals in the vehicles and boats. I'd take my 100-400 on a second body.

Gordon

[LD_50]

19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I don’t use AF that often. I find that branches and twigs in front often confuse it. If AF I normally use spot focus. Manual is easier and more reliable. I often shoot at 600 or 840 and have my tricks to make it easy. 

The best AF systems are really good with combinations of single point, various wildlife detection modes, etc for the scenario described. They’ve long ago passed the ease and reliability of manual focus for most photographers. 

[helged]

12 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It'll depend on the optics. Simple as that. The 500 5.6 is sharper than either of the Sigma zooms. And if this lens has close to *prime* IQ in a zoom range then it's a keeper. 4kg is relatively heavy but there's no other zooms like this and it's lighter than a 300 f4, 400 f4, 500 f4 and a 600f4. Even if the zoom optics were as good (they won't be) there's 1.5 stops more background blur which is nice for busy backgrounds when your movement is limited.

I'm seriously looking at this. It'll depend on the new Panasonic S1Rii as to whether it's in L or E mount. I'd rather L mount because Sony restricts TC use to Sony lenses. 420-840mm f5.6 would be pretty handy if the S1Rii is up to the task. I wouldn't consider it on a SL3 body due to the shutter shock issues and lack or EFCS. No point having great long lenses if the camera is taking away some of the detail. It's for Panasonic bodies, really.

For sure it's a gimbal mount lens. The two next trips I have, both have gimbals in the vehicles and boats. I'd take my 100-400 on a second body.

Gordon

Do we know that S1Rii has EFCS? (yes based on past incarnations of the Lumix S1x houses; just wondering about S1Rii).

[jaapv]

I know. I also use a S5Ii which is not bad at animal ( eye) recognition but I still prefer to chose my own plane of focus. If you use eye detection you lose too much DOF behind to get focus on the nose. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

The best AF systems are really good with combinations of single point, various wildlife detection modes, etc for the scenario described. They’ve long ago passed the ease and reliability of manual focus for most photographers. 

Kind of agreed. I use AF when I can but lots of animals have spent centuries blending into their backgrounds. Sometimes manual focus is the fastest and most reliable method, regardless of what Canon tell us. I've had it where a modern Canon just focused on the background instead of a giraffe, over and over and over again. Having MF available is essential.

But it's also easy to disengage AF from the shutter and to have multiple AF algorithms available at a button press as well as full time manual focus.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 minute ago, helged said:

Do we know that S1Rii has EFCS? (yes based on past incarnations of the Lumix S1x houses; just wondering about S1Rii).

If it doesn't I don't purchase. But it looks like a fast readout sensor, based on the rumors, so hopefully no shutter at all required, like I do on my Sony A1 and A1ii. 

We'll see tomorrow.

It's not the end of the world. I have a Sony 400-800 on order just in case the Panny doesn't pan out (see what I did there  ). I'd like to consolodate to L mount or I can just enjoy the Sony as well. 1st world problems.....

Gordon

[LD_50]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Kind of agreed. I use AF when I can but lots of animals have spent centuries blending into their backgrounds. Sometimes manual focus is the fastest and most reliable method, regardless of what Canon tell us. I've had it where a modern Canon just focused on the background instead of a giraffe, over and over and over again. Having MF available is essential.

But it's also easy to disengage AF from the shutter and to have multiple AF algorithms available at a button press as well as full time manual focus.

Gordon

Agreed that MF override is great as an addition to AF. 

[BLeventhal]

I disagree with the perception that this is a redundant product or that one stop makes a difference. In fact, I think that this lens now makes the L-Mount a compelling choice for wildlife shooters who want access to some of Leica's best glass as well. First, the lens is an internal zoom with internal focus. As such, if you shoot in the rain, snow, or near the ocean, the lens will be more robust and will not experience the change in balance associated with the movement of a large front element. Second, the one stop advantage offers more than the benefit of a lower ISO, it results in a shallower depth of field. I like to shoot through vegetation and/or use surrounding vegetation as a way to frame my subject. At f/4, the surrounding vegetation will have a softer edge and thus not distract you from the subject. 

While I use M-mount cameras, I currently use a Nikon Z9/Z8 w/ a 400TC and use either a 180-600 or 100-400 when I need a zoom for my nature photography. Other than the times that I shoot from my kayak, I grab my 400 f/2.8 with built in TC. There are times when I wish I had grabbed the zoom, but I wanted my best glass. In fact, I was just out photographing a bobcat that walked in too close and I ended up with too much cat in the frame... had, I been able to zoom back to 300mm, I would have had a better composition.

If the Leica SL3-S can improve C-AF with a bit of firmware, I would consider a wholesale switch to Leica... I could imagine and 70-200 f2.8 on one body and this 300-600 on another. This pairing would be a perfect combination of focal length and speed.

cheers,

bruce

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[jaapv]

Nobody said it was redundant. It is clearly a fine lens and internal zoom is a good thing when shooting from a tripod. Handheld it is of less importance. 
However, tripods are largely on the way out due to ever more effective stabilization and ISO capability. In wildlife they are mostly used for hides and some other static situations. For carrying and handheld over longer periods and mobile it is too heavy and unwieldy.

I normally use the 150-600 and 70-200 on two bodies. It distributes the weight over two shoulders.

I see the 60-600 for versatile use. Zoom from small bird to elephant close up and sports use which needs a wide zoom range to cover both sides of the playing field. 
Which leaves us with the question: whom do s this lens meant for? Tripod use with a limited zoom range?  To me it is clear that it is mainly meant for Video and observation ( e.g. nesting birds) , not for general sports and wildlife. 

In fact, with these three 600 lenses -compact, versatile and light, wide zoom range, and static- Sigma caters for just about the whole range of long zoom users, with the outliers more aimed at smaller groups of specialized users. 

[BLeventhal]

I just spent 3 days in the field with my Z9 and 400mm f2.8 with built in converter in one hand and my Z8 with 24-120 on the shoulder. The 400TC is 2.95KG and the Z9 is 1.34kg. The lens is exceptionally well-balanced, and I shot 90% of my work handheld. Each day included at least 2 miles (3.2km) of hiking to track a subject. Whenever possible, I would lie flat or sit, but there were many instances when I had to stand in the wind. After 3 days of shooting I managed to photograph a mix of animal landscapes and intimate portraits. The subjects included bobcats, coyotes, elk, deer, burrowing owls, ravens, and kestrels. I used a tripod when possible, but relied on VR and ISO to help me when the tripod was not the best option. None of the work was done from a blind/hide or vehicle. 

While this type of photography is not everyone, it is how I shoot. The ability to have a 300-600 f4 zoom would be a win for me...

I look forward to seeing how the new SL AF system integrates with this lens... I love the design of the SL2s and its simplistic menu, and it appears that in addition to usable continuous AF, the Leica SL3-s has improved on the former.

cheers,

bruce