lct Posted February 12 Share #261 Posted February 12 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 56 minutes ago, Stevejack said: But a visoflex-equivalent experience in an M body won't be giving us anything we don't already have. Or the visoflex-equivalent experience would be giving exactly what some of us are looking for. An M-mount body with an EVF instead of the RF. No bump on the top plate anymore. We could put a flash or a thumb rest in the hotshoe w/o having to remove the Visoflex finally since it would be built in the body. Let alone that the EVF would be on the top left instead of the bump in the middle... Edited February 12 by lct 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Hi lct, Take a look here EVF M rumoured. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stevejack Posted February 12 Share #262 Posted February 12 Just now, lct said: Or the visoflex-equivalent experience would be giving exactly what some of us are looking for. An M-mount body with an EVF instead of the RF. No bump on the top plate anymore. We could put a flash or a thumb rest in the hotshoe w/o having to remove the Visoflex finally since it would be built in the body. Let alone that the EVF would be on the top left instead of the bump in the middle... Sorry you're right, I agree from that side of it but what I mean is an EVF without any improvements to what we already have in the visoflex in terms of resolution / framerate seems like a missed opportunity. Not to mention improvements in the software to aid focus. The thing I actually love most about the visoflex is the 90 degree tilt. Losing that, for an otherwise equivalent (in terms of specs) evf would be a downgrade for me. The visoflex is borderline too low in resolution for accurate focus at narrow apertures. I rely on the rangefinder to focus, then move to the EVF for framing + exposure. If they want to use existing tech the EVF in the SL2 is actually ok, stick that in the M body and I'd be ok with it. It would be a shame if they don't innovate on the software side but at least it's a nicer EVF overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 12 Share #263 Posted February 12 The LSI project retained the same EVF as the Visoflex 2 for a reason that has not been put forward in 2023 if memory serves but a superior EVF would cannibalize M12 sales i suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted February 12 Share #264 Posted February 12 I still pine for a square format M-mount camera with a tilting EVF, or even a tilting LCD that has a folding hood like on TLRs and medium format SLRs, kind of like the Hasselblad 907X. I doubt the EVF-M form factor will depart that radically from a rangefinder, however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsung Posted February 12 Share #265 Posted February 12 I’ve recently moved from the CL, a pure EVF camera, to the M10. One of the biggest reasons for the upgrade is the rangefinder, it offers a more challenging yet deeply satisfying shooting experience. An EVF-based M wouldn’t cannibalize rangefinder M sales; instead, it would serve as a gateway, introducing more people to the rangefinder experience. Compared to other Leica product lines, an EVF M would be a natural upgrade for: • Q users looking for interchangeable lenses • SL users seeking a smaller, lighter system That said, the EVF on an M might not match the quality of the SL’s, based on the current Live View performance. It makes perfect sense. Many enthusiasts prefer manual sports cars for the pure driving experience, yet automatic 911s still account for 90% of total sales. Business owners will, of course, do the math. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted February 12 Share #266 Posted February 12 I believe that selling 800-1000 units will not be a problem for Leica. There are three categories of customers who will provide this: 1. People who use Leica as a piece of jewelry on vacation. The EVF makes it easier for them to learn the camera. They will also buy a lot of red/gold accessories (soft release buttons and the like), they like to screw everything they can onto the camera. 2. Wealthy owners of cats and flower gardens. 3. Bokeh fans who buy heavy fast lenses and shoot mainly with them, but consider bokeh to be the main and only difference between a good photo and a bad one. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 12 Share #267 Posted February 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 2/10/2025 at 1:50 PM, Ko.Fe. said: M with EVF is just a Q with M mount. No it’s not. As I previous joked it’s actually a SL with M mount because Q is fixed lens 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted February 12 Share #268 Posted February 12 I still remember the words from Stefan Daniel a few years ago. M stands for Meßsucher. This is a fact. And this fact will remain forever. Maybe Wetzlar is developing a new body with an integrated TechartPro Adapter that allows AF with manual M lenses 🙂 That would be really a revolution, together with IBIS of course. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted February 12 Share #269 Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, satijntje said: I still remember the words from Stefan Daniel a few years ago. M stands for Meßsucher. This is a fact. And this fact will remain forever. Maybe Wetzlar is developing a new body with an integrated TechartPro Adapter that allows AF with manual M lenses 🙂 That would be really a revolution, together with IBIS of course. This is not possible since most modern lenses have an FLE design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 12 Author Share #270 Posted February 12 If it’s not an innovative product that has been well thought out and designed then it will be disappointing, especially if they release it at anywhere near the price of a current M. I just hope it’s not a lazy release with a 3.69m Visoflex EVF experience in an M11. I like the idea of an M11 body but the solution needs to be unique and special. It has to improve on the shooting experience of using an SL/other mirrorless camera with adapter. Otherwise what’s the point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 12 Share #271 Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Smogg said: I believe that selling 800-1000 units will not be a problem for Leica. There are three categories of customers who will provide this: 1. People who use Leica as a piece of jewelry on vacation. The EVF makes it easier for them to learn the camera. They will also buy a lot of red/gold accessories (soft release buttons and the like), they like to screw everything they can onto the camera. 2. Wealthy owners of cats and flower gardens. 3. Bokeh fans who buy heavy fast lenses and shoot mainly with them, but consider bokeh to be the main and only difference between a good photo and a bad one. I think there are also many other types of potential buyers, such as M fans who want better control of framing or depth of field, or M users who no longer have good enough vision to use the traditional M viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejack Posted February 12 Share #272 Posted February 12 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Al Brown said: 907 is niche due to the lack of IBIS, grip and finder. The X2D, only a fraction larger, beats it in virtually all aspects. It has only been made with the folks in mind who use the hybrid back on their older Hasselblads to have access to XCD lenses. I am not saying the concept behind 907 is flawed, just very niche. The 907 + cfv digital back design though is a brilliant example of a company bringing out a product specifically in support of their older bodies + lenses. It's such a joy using the digital back on a Hasselblad film camera. I'm sure it wasn't easy to justify the design and tooling it in terms of dollars and cents but they went ahead and did it anyway. Edited February 12 by Stevejack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 12 Share #273 Posted February 12 14 minutes ago, Al Brown said: Live view is already working hard for those. The main reason for an EVF M is that you don't want to use Live View or a Visoflex; they don't provide the same user experience as holding a simple camera to your eye. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted February 12 Share #274 Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, evikne said: The main reason for an EVF M is that you don't want to use Live View or a Visoflex; they don't provide the same user experience as holding a simple camera to your eye. Nikon ZF does it better and cheaper 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 12 Share #275 Posted February 12 22 minutes ago, Smogg said: Nikon ZF does it better and cheaper So why use Leica? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted February 12 Share #276 Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, evikne said: So why use Leica? Because Leica has a rangefinder 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted February 12 Share #277 Posted February 12 If I was satisfied with the EVF and not the rangefinder, I would not buy the Leica APO 50 and APO 35. I would prefer the Voightlander Lanthar, they are noticeably cheaper, but no worse in quality, and when shooting against the sun, they even surpass their Leica counterparts. However, they have a significant disadvantage - the size, which covers a significant part of the frame in the rangefinder. Therefore, I believe that if the EVF-M comes out, many will stop buying Leica lenses. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 12 Share #278 Posted February 12 (edited) I suspect there are many potential buyers of a M with EVF in place of the rangefinder: aside from those already mentioned, there would be those new to Leica, attracted by the marketing spiel, history, image (etc), but are nervous about a strange focusing system (as evidenced by quite a lot of new members on the forum). They will see an EVF M as a way of getting all the hype, and image quality, while avoiding the nervousness. An EVF M next to your espresso on a cafe table looks just the same as a RF M if you don't know to look for the RF windows (and they can be faked with stick-on versions). Personally, I would not want one because I prefer the benefits of rangefinder focusing (speed and accuracy within its FL limits, plus the OVF), and don't wish to use a M for FL>90 or <28. But I think there are plenty of newbies to Leica who would not see it that way. Edited February 12 by LocalHero1953 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted February 12 Share #279 Posted February 12 7 hours ago, Stevejack said: When Leica started re-releasing new versions of their older M lenses I really thought; 'this is it - they're going to release an EVF-M'. The advertising sells itself; "For the first time in the history of the M camera we've produced a model which allows you to see the glow / flare / swirl and make full creative use of these effects as you take the shot". Interesting, because I used the 35mm Summicron (IV) on the Lumix S5 mirrorless, and yes the output was nice, but did not have the M- 'magic' in some way. I never looked 'for flare'. So what is then left in the EVF as 'special'? Yes. e.g. the Summarit 75mm (modern) is great that way but the shalow DOF wide open makes wide open shooting hard. Same with modern Summiluxes. With a EVF: I prefer point and shoot = achieve focus somewhere (with smartness or not, intended or misdirected by way of my nose if you understand the impracticalities - what I mean), but at a higher quality than available by hand. Also, I found it is very hard to see in live view that special separation of the foreground/background that Mandler achieved in his lenses. I prefer the astonishment afterwards. It is quite different from that in modern lenses that I also like for other reasons (astonishment about the presentation that Karbe et al. achieves). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejack Posted February 12 Share #280 Posted February 12 25 minutes ago, Al Brown said: When the Chinese (DJI) pour in dinero for financial backing, engineering resources and manufacturing expertise, it is easy. Oddly, no strong Western sentiment against Chinese with Hasselblad users... 😏 True enough! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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