EVF M rumoured

[pgk]

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8 hours ago, evikne said:

For me, medium format is not primarily about any of this, but rather about sensor size, which gives a different expression to the images.

There are no true medium format sensor, rather they are all 'oversize' FX sensors. Medium format always started at 6x4.5cm in film days. My comment about 60MPixels being competition to medium format was rather glib and was really referring to the fact that the output from this resolution FX sensor would have satisfied the needs of medium format shooters in the past. [I still shoot 'proper' medium format - stitched images based on and covering a projected image the dimensions of which are and sometimes exceed traditional medium format sizes.] 

[lct]

1 hour ago, adan said:

I have to say I find it hilarious that folks are diving back into the last millennium seeking guidance on business ops, planning, engineering, pricing, and precedents for what "Leica" might do. As if there was some kind of corporate continuity in its ownership and management [...] In 2000, the French luxury fashion-accessory company Hermès bought 36% of that public stock [...]

History plays an important role in centenary companies such as Leica. The same is true for Hermès you are referring to. When Hermès designs a new bag, it does so in memory of all those it has made since 1937. The same is true for Leica, and i do find it interesting to compare the rumored M11-V from 2025, first digital M camera without a rangefinder, with the M1 from 1959, first analog M camera without a rangefinder, from this viewpoint. YMMV 😎

[pgk]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

I do find it interesting to compare the rumored M11-V from 2025, first digital M camera without a rangefinder, with the M1 from 1959, first analog M camera without a rangefinder, from this viewpoint. YMMV 😎

So what are you saying? That an EVF-M will be a 'technical' camera for use with a Visoflex?🤔😁

[lct]

1 minute ago, pgk said:

So what are you saying? That an EVF-M will be a 'technical' camera for use with a Visoflex?🤔😁

I don't understand this question sorry.

[dsalamena]

17 hours ago, jaapv said:

I don’t see any M camera as being in competition with any medium format camera. Completely different use cases. 

I agree completely different use cases. But here we are talking about luxury market, not professional. I think a wealthy amateur photographer would really think which is the best camera his/her money can buy. A beautiful fully spec medium format camera (best sensor in the market, great EvF , best stabilization, great lenses) is quite appealing

[pgk]

11 hours ago, lct said:

I don't understand this question sorry.

That is what the M1 was intended for - technical use with a Visoflex. And actually I could see an EVF-M being very useful in such an application again, but unfortunately it will be far too expensive for this, if of course it is made.

Actually, when I think about it, an M1 equivalent today could be made by simply dispensing with the rangefinder in an M11 .....

Edited August 30 by pgk

[LocalHero1953]

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20 minutes ago, pgk said:

That is what the M1 was intended for - technical use with a Visoflex. And actually I could see an EVF-M being very useful in such an application again, but unfortunately it will be far too expensive for this, if of course it is made.

Actually, when I think about it, an M1 equivalent today could be made by simply dispensing with the rangefinder in an M11 .....

Or taping over the windows.... (and the red dot).

But, as the -D versions of the M have shown, people would rather pay more for a new expensive camera than simply cover up the rear screen. I think Leica know their customers.......

Edited August 30 by LocalHero1953

[lct]

3 hours ago, pgk said:

That is what the M1 was intended for - technical use with a Visoflex [...]

I woulk ask historians to be sure but you seem to confuse the M1 with MD, MDa and MD2 cameras. The way i recall it, the M1 was an entry camera, less expensive than its sister M2, with only 2 framelines, 35 & 50, focal lengths less critical than 90mm as far as focusing. Otherwise the M1 was basically the same camera as the M2. As its instruction manual said then, « The LEICA M1 is identical in its construction and operation with the LEICA M2, except that it does not have a built-in rangefinder ». Replace "M1" by "M11-V" and "M2" by "M11" and you'll see the comparo i was referring to. With a pinch of salt of course, the M11 was from 1959, if memory serves, and the M11-V is expected for October 2025.

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Edited August 30 by lct

[jaapv]

Correct. To add: The MD series was intended for technical photography which did not require a rangefinder, like microscopy, post office use, reproduction, scopes, etc. 

[pgk]

As per Leicaphilia (apparently) and quoting from the Leica M1 wikipedia entry: "The M1, which followed the original M3 and later M2, was the lowest-cost and simplest Leica M body, a simplified M2 without a rangefinder. It was intended to be used for technical work together with the ground-glass focussing Visoflex, a mirror reflex housing that turns a Leica M into a single-lens reflex camera." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M1] [https://leicaphilia.com/the-leica-m1-the-lost-leica/].

[lct]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

[...] It was intended to be used for technical work together with the ground-glass focussing Visoflex, a mirror reflex housing that turns a Leica M into a single-lens reflex camera." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M1] [https://leicaphilia.com/the-leica-m1-the-lost-leica/].

I don't see references to reflex housings in the brief manual for M1 & M2 below. Another common point with the M11-V, i suspect, as it is not supposed to work with an external EVF.

leica_m1-m2_brief_manual.pdf

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

As per Leicaphilia (apparently) and quoting from the Leica M1 wikipedia entry: "The M1, which followed the original M3 and later M2, was the lowest-cost and simplest Leica M body, a simplified M2 without a rangefinder. It was intended to be used for technical work together with the ground-glass focussing Visoflex, a mirror reflex housing that turns a Leica M into a single-lens reflex camera." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M1] [https://leicaphilia.com/the-leica-m1-the-lost-leica/].

Not just Visoflex. Also for stereo microscopes, astronomical telescopes, repro etc.  And of course the Leica Post

 

[pgk]

31 minutes ago, lct said:

I don't see references to reflex housings in the brief manual for M1 & M2 below

Not going to argue but I've always understood that the M1 was intended to satisfy technical use requiremets. Whilst it is possible to use one with 35/50 lenses, it is not easy so to suggest it was a 'simplified' general usage camera is being rather hopeful.

Edited August 30 by pgk

[jaapv]

5 minutes ago, pgk said:

Not going to argue but I've always understood that the M1 was intended to satisfy tecnical use requiremets.

That was the MD.  
The M1 was intended as snapshot camera with zone focus or rangefinder attachment. Different times - In the fifties the home-use norm was 6x9 cm prints which gave a huge leeway in DOF. 

[pgk]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

That was the MD.  The M1 was intended as snapshot camera with zone focus or rangefinder attachment. 

If so, i) it never caught on, and ii) when I worked at R G Lewis in the '80s and we had at least one is used, it was already considered to be similar to MD Series in terms of usage and sold as such (use with a Visoflex). I've never actually seen one being used with 35/50 lenses as a snapshot camera although it is obviously possible, and I suppose a rangefinder fitted on top would help! I've seen many photos posted of M1/MD Series cameras with 21mm lens and viewfinders attached when people realised that this was a simple, usable outfit. As a snapshot camera the M1 was undoubtedly a complete failure with 35/50 lenses.

[jaapv]

Why a failure? The mantra back then was Sonne lacht-Blende 8. This was before the era of fuzzy-ears portraiture. The number sold was similar to the MD. Obviously not by R G Lewis 😉
I’m sure that the upgrade option was attractive allowing the customer to get an M2 in two phases. That it was offered by Leica proves that they saw the camera as an entrance level way to get into the system. 

[pgk]

40 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why a failure? The mantra back then was Sonne lacht-Blende 8. This was before the era of fuzzy-ears portraiture. The number sold was similar to the MD. Obviously not by R G Lewis 😉
I’m sure that the upgrade option was attractive allowing the customer to get an M2 in two phases. That it was offered by Leica proves that they saw the camera as an entrance level way to get into the system. 

Reality of trying to scale focus 35/50 lenses does rather negate the concept of the M being a 'precision instrument' don't you think? I wonder how many were actually upgraded to M2 spec?

[jaapv]

Have you not  noticed how many M users (and even Q (!) try to use zone focus and hyperfocal on their high-precision cameras? It seems that they think one cannot be a street photographer without. 

[lct]

11 minutes ago, pgk said:

Reality of trying to scale focus 35/50 lenses does rather negate the concept of the M being a 'precision instrument' don't you think? I wonder how many were actually upgraded to M2 spec?

No idea but OVF cameras sans RF were pretty common at that time. My first one was an Agfa Silette in the 60s. The Super-Silette came with an RF later on.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[pgk]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

No idea but OVF cameras sans RF were pretty common at that time. My first one was an Agfa Silette in the 60s.

Yes, I had such a camera. Easy enough to use an infinity, otherwise not so good. But they were much cheaper than M series Leicas.