EVF M rumoured

[Olaf_ZG]

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31 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Spring 2027??? But the black paint M11 is already out, M12 is imminent.

No, 2027 is correct. You need to add the freezing time on the normal cycle. 

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[pedaes]

39 minutes ago, Crem said:

"if Leica can sell 800-1,000 units" issue.

I was at the event Thosten refers too. It was a LSI ( previously LHSA) event, and the LHSA have had Leica make limited editions in the past. I took it as a tongue in cheek statement by Stefan, saying if LSI could secure 800-1000 orders they would consider making it. A challenge I don't think LSI will take up! Not saying there may not be future LSI editions @derleicaman.

Edited February 11 by pedaes

[evikne]

10 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I took it as a tongue in cheek statement by Stefan, saying if LSI could secure 800-1000 orders they would consider making it.

If this forum represents an average of the users, there should be no problem. 😄

[FlashGordonPhotography]

22 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

There are simpler ways to make life difficult.

I found it very easy. Enough that it became almost instinctive.

It may be difficult for some but it wasn't  for me. Each to their own.

Gordon

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Steve Ash:

I completely agree. For example by wasting your time on a discussion in the internet about a camera that you have no appreciation for or interest in.

...or by wasting time arguing with users who are driven by tradition rather than innovation.

If your comment was addressed to me: I appreciate the M9 for its proximity to traditional film photography and also for the opto-mechanical precision of the rangefinder, which is why I bought it a second time in 2024. All later models do not interest me, because combining high end sensors with a body that has so many weaknesses is too unbalanced for me.

However, there are far too many situations in which the rangefinder limits me and where it is more important to me to get the image I want and not to celebrate the 'reduction to the essentials'. This is nothing more than marketing babble to give a halo to a camera that is no longer up to the many challenges that can easily be mastered with modern technology.

In this respect, I am excited to see what Leica comes up with to combine tradition and the possibilities of today's technology in a new viewfinder. Until then I enjoy some really nice M-lenses with more capable bodies.

Edited February 11 by 3D-Kraft.com

[Smogg]

7 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

However, there are far too many situations in which the rangefinder limits me and where it is more important to me to get the image I want and not to celebrate the 'reduction to the essentials'. This is nothing more than marketing babble to give a halo to a camera that is no longer up to the many challenges that can easily be mastered with modern technology.

I carry Visoflex in my bag for exactly these situations. I attach it when needed, but not very often, sometimes an external screen is enough.

[Borna]

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2 hours ago, SrMi said:

If you check his YT channel, you will notice that Alan Schaller uses the rangefinder, EVF, LCD, or nothing with his Monochrom. He would probably like a tiltable rear screen for his dog and cat photography.

P.S.: Fuji cameras do not have rangefinders.

Their viewfinder is hybrid is what i meant!

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Smogg:

I carry Visoflex in my bag for exactly these situations. I attach it when needed, but not very often, sometimes an external screen is enough.

The EVF-M must (and hopefully will) be more than just the replacement of the OVF window by an EVF.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Once the M-EVF (EVF-M? MEVF??) is out, they can bring back the FOKOS! (Look it up).

They can call it the FOKOS 2!

It'll attach to the accessory shoe and communicate with the body through contacts there.

Data from turning the lens to focus will be communicated to the FOKOS 2, which will rotate its internal prisms accordingly via extremely high resolution stepper motors (or maybe servos). Easy to use: just line the two images up!

Thus, enabling an optical focusing experience when the electronic viewfinder will not do. 

Only wrinkle: we'd be back to two windows. That's Pre-M. It's basically IIIf territory.

Wait!! The IIIg had one viewfinder window, pre-dating the M!

So... let's see..... a name.....

"IIIG-EV mit FOKOS 2"?

"G-EVFOKOS2"?

(Maybe GEFOK2 for short? ........)

.... Hmmmm. Problem. 

 

.

Edited February 11 by DadDadDaddyo
seized by the creative rapture (rupture? No, no, rapture).

[Kwesi]

Leica isn't going to stick an EVF into an M for the very simple reason that it kills the Q.

Conversely, Leica will never make an interchangeable lens Q for the simple reason that it kills the M.

 

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Borna:

Their viewfinder is hybrid is what i meant!

Yes, but "hybrid" can be implemented in many ways. Even the X-Pro2 and X-Pro3 have some differences. Fuji has an optical view finder with some kind of electronic augmentation.

What I expect from Leica is an EVF that makes use of the RF coupling of the lenses + AI based methods like eye-detection in order to add visualizations in the EVF picture supporting the manual focussing.

[costa43]

19 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Leica isn't going to stick an EVF into an M for the very simple reason that it kills the Q.

Conversely, Leica will never make an interchangeable lens Q for the simple reason that it kills the M.

 

I don’t see how it kills the Q. There will be no autofocus, no weather sealing, no video (possibly?) it will probably cost more with a lens than the Q. I also do not see a market for an interchangeable lens Q. They would have to bring out a range of small lenses for it to be even remotely appealing. The Q is a small package as the lens is designed for the body and vice versa, to get them that small and interchangeable would mean a sacrifice to the speed of the lenses. I think an EVF in the M11 body (possibly the M11-D style with no iso dial) is a good idea. The build quality is a known commodity, it looks amazing and it’s all very familiar. How they make the EVF experience M like is what interests me. 

Edited February 11 by costa43

[Derbyshire Man]

43 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Yes, but "hybrid" can be implemented in many ways. Even the X-Pro2 and X-Pro3 have some differences. Fuji has an optical view finder with some kind of electronic augmentation.

What I expect from Leica is an EVF that makes use of the RF coupling of the lenses + AI based methods like eye-detection in order to add visualizations in the EVF picture supporting the manual focussing.

I don't know the RF optics well enough to know what's possible but some sort of LCD based overlay allowing some additional data (eg heaven forbid shutter speed when in shutter priority mode), framelines, extended exposure indication might be a benefit to some without destroying the zeitgeist entirely.

[wattsy]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

The EVF-M must (and hopefully will) be more than just the replacement of the OVF window by an EVF.

That's pretty much exactly what it will likely be, if it happens. I'm also pretty sure that Leica would want to sell more than 800-1000 units if they are going to do this. An EVF-M wouldn't be like a special edition M11 or MP, the development of which is usually limited to some fancy paint or raiding the existing parts bin.

Edited February 11 by wattsy

[agfa100]

I am very happy using my M lenses on a Sony a-9, I only had to add a 24 and 20 and a swa lens. The fast silent shutter and no blackout works. If it had microlenses I would be set.

Edited February 11 by agfa100

[jrichie]

1 hour ago, Kwesi said:

Leica isn't going to stick an EVF into an M for the very simple reason that it kills the Q.

Conversely, Leica will never make an interchangeable lens Q for the simple reason that it kills the M.

 

This is actually the Apple way of thinking.

Kill your own product by expanding the line rather than letting others take your market.

I think you will find Leica will be quite successful with an interchangeable Q or an EVF M option [whilst maintaining the traditional M].  So what if it digs into current M or Q sales.  They are gaining customers rather than losing them, plus they can use the same technologies across the bodies to have scale.

The outlier is actually the traditional M with the OVF.

It's up to them if they want to go for it. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

3 minutes ago, jrichie said:

The outlier is actually the traditional M with the OVF.

There is actually exactly nothing wrong with this.

[Lee S]

I think Leica could keep 2/3rd s of the camera the same and just have a different top plate for LCD and Rangefinder versions. 

It wouldn’t tank the sales of M, Q or SL lines. They are three very distinct products.
 

Edited February 11 by Lee S

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[Lee S]

14 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

There is actually exactly nothing wrong with this.

Agree, the range finder is a good focus system apart from extreme off axis at shallow depth of field or fast moving subjects.

An EVF M wouldn’t really help with fast moving subjects though. 

 

[Stevejack]

5 hours ago, Overgaard said:

I think if one look over the recent releases of M cameras, such as the Glossy Black, it confirm what level of newness to (not) expect. I think that it is likely that if an EVF version arises, it will simply be moving the EVF from external housing, to inside the Leica M11 body. In the last two-three years Stefan Daniel have moved from "it'll be over my dead body" to later stating (at an LSI meeting) that if Leica can sell 800-1,000 units, it would be worth doing. He also stated to me, that "the only way to find out, is making it."

This is exactly the problem. People know when Leica gives us a low-effort release and they won't buy it. 
I don't think anyone wants the visoflex moved into the M body. If a new EVF-M doesn't improve the experience of using manual M lenses beyond simply attaching the visoflex, what's the point? 

When Leica started re-releasing new versions of their older M lenses I really thought; 'this is it - they're going to release an EVF-M'.
The advertising sells itself; "For the first time in the history of the M camera we've produced a model which allows you to see the glow / flare / swirl and make full creative use of these effects as you take the shot". I mean I'm no marketing genius but it doesn't seem like a hard sell.

I know they leaned hard into fixing any and all aberrations in the Karbe lenses but there is a definite window of opportunity to sell the hell out of their classic re-release lenses alongside a camera dedicated to allowing the user to make full creative use of their character. But a visoflex-equivalent experience in an M body won't be giving us anything we don't already have.