Jewl Posted February 3 Share #1 Posted February 3 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys, quick question, I believe this has been answered deep in some other threads but couldn‘t find a suitable answer yet. I am practicing zone focusing on the street with my Leica MP (preferably f8, box speed iso 800 & shutter speed 1/500 or faster as a start) and was wondering how you treat changing lighting conditions while moving? Especially if you are moving in between of large buildings etc. it might happen that a very sunny situation becomes very shady and dark! Are you just continue hoping for the best? Seems to be a little expensive bet when shooting film thanks in adance! cheers J Edited February 3 by Jewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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TomB_tx Posted February 3 Share #2 Posted February 3 I'm no help - I don't think I've used "zone focusing" in 50 years. I will pre-focus on a spot and wait for the subject to get there, and will sometimes estimate distance and set by scale. For changing light I use experience and quickly adjust aperture as light changes. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 3 Share #3 Posted February 3 Tall buildings, close together, in sunlight, are a serious trial. With my M7 (film) I opt mainly for manual exposure setting and constantly adjusting it according to where I walk and want to point my camera.. Choose whether to favour shadow areas or highlights and expose for that. It keeps you alert to your environment. Be prepared to change your aperture and sometimes your shutter speed. Don't be rigid about a 'standard setting'. Almost certainly you will not be in a 'standard location'. So much for 'standard'. Practice changing those settings as you move through a scenario, even if you don't shoot anything. Br prepared. Where have I heard that before? Eventually, you get a sense of 'how many clicks' on your aperture ring to make as you move from light to dark to light. Sometimes this is quicker/more efficient than checking your light meter. As for the Zone Focussing part of your question, I have never had confidence in it to any extent. Because I like wider apertures, f5.6 & wider, I tend use reflexes to set focus as I shoot. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 4 Share #4 Posted February 4 Changing light is always a challenge; I would echo Erl. Zone focusing is creating an area of acceptable UNsharpness. Therefore is should be named Zone Misfocus. It is, however an acceptable technique if there is nothing better available like for instance accurate RF focusing or, as Tom describes, trap focusing. Stop a bit down and trap focus and you can get results like this: M9M, Nokton 1.5/50 ii. One shot, one result. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419040-zone-focusing-on-the-street-constantly-changing-light-conditions/?do=findComment&comment=5751391'>More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 4 Share #5 Posted February 4 3 hours ago, Jewl said: Hi guys, quick question, I believe this has been answered deep in some other threads but couldn‘t find a suitable answer yet. I am practicing zone focusing on the street with my Leica MP (preferably f8, box speed iso 800 & shutter speed 1/500 or faster as a start) and was wondering how you treat changing lighting conditions while moving? Especially if you are moving in between of large buildings etc. it might happen that a very sunny situation becomes very shady and dark! Are you just continue hoping for the best? Seems to be a little expensive bet when shooting film thanks in adance! cheers J Umm, change your f-stop and/or shutter speed and focus where you need to focus? That's how I've always done it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted February 4 Share #6 Posted February 4 While I appreciate the concept of zone focusing, it was often used on cheap 35mm cameras for newbies, I've never found it satisfactory for everyday use...but to each his own. As far as dealing with changing light conditions...I usually take 2 readings....incident light in both, one in sun and one in shade, and then put the lightmeter away. Then depending on whether subject is in sun or shade, adjust exposure as necessary. The intensity usually doesn't change that much within an hour or so, unless a wavy of clouds sets in, and in that case another quick meter reading and i'm set to go. hope this helps. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyhusky Posted February 5 Share #7 Posted February 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) I use a similar approach to commenter above when I shoot street with my M2. I shoot in aperture priority(usually at f/8) starting with two readings - one in the sun, the other in the shade. Then depending on the light I just swap between the two reading's shutter speed - e.g. 1/60th or 1/1000th. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 5 Share #8 Posted February 5 24 minutes ago, lazyhusky said: I use a similar approach to commenter above when I shoot street with my M2. I shoot in aperture priority(usually at f/8) starting with two readings - one in the sun, the other in the shade. Then depending on the light I just swap between the two reading's shutter speed - e.g. 1/60th or 1/1000th. Generally I shoot aperture priority and allow my M7 to control the shutter, except, as noted above, between tall buildings close together on a sunny day, I need to switch to a set shutter speed, usually 1/250th or higher and I then manually click the aperture ring according to where the shadows and highlights fall. With my M6's I set shutter and click the aperture as above. It is worth noting that the aperture ring is faster and easier to shift than the shutter dial on most Leicas. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted February 5 Share #9 Posted February 5 On 2/4/2025 at 1:06 AM, jaapv said: Zone focusing is creating an area of acceptable UNsharpness. Couldn’t agree more. I’d even go so far to say that the term zone focusing is deceptive because it suggests that things will be in focus. I’d call it focus guessing. On Leica lenses (and other manufacturers) you can read a depth of field zone that is said to be acceptable. In my opinion this is starkly misleading. It might be acceptable for small holiday prints, but in today's digital world zone focusing leads to blurry photos. At f/8, it does matter whether I focus on 2.7m or 3.3m or 3.0m for a subject that is 3m far away. Only the latter is sharp. The same can be said for subjects at farther distances. Even things at 20m want to be focused at 20m and not infinity if a sharp image is what you are after. That’s why the range finder exists in the first place. With some training the range finder can be the quickest manual focusing tool. And for wider focal lengths its more precise and faster than ground glass focusing or EVFs. I find it not hard to learn. The trick is to always return the focus to infinity after the shot. On 2/3/2025 at 10:32 PM, Jewl said: I am practicing zone focusing on the street with my Leica MP (preferably f8, box speed iso 800 & shutter speed 1/500 or faster as a start) and was wondering how you treat changing lighting conditions while moving? Especially if you are moving in between of large buildings etc. it might happen that a very sunny situation becomes very shady and dark! Shooting on film has the advantage to be highly forgiving when overexposed. That’s why rating the film a stop lower than box speed is best practice. Add to that the two readings of what you get in the shadows and the brighter parts of your image and you can adjust the aperture to what you deem to be the leading part in the image. There are cases where an average of both readings makes sense. Tilting this towards overexposure is often the better choice. In the end, it comes down to experience, which can be sufficiently achieved within 4 rolls or so, if you expose systematically for learning porposes. Quick range finder focusing is harder to learn but tremendously satisfying when results get better over time. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 5 Share #10 Posted February 5 Whether you zone focus or prefocus, the only way to manage changing light is by changing exposure quickly enough. With film I always air on the side of caution and overexpose a little. Most films I’ve used have a fair amount of latitude with overexposure but very little with under. Overexposing a bit tends to give me more keepers in changing light even if I fluff it up. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 5 Share #11 Posted February 5 Come to think of it the OP would be far better off with a Q and everything set to automatic. Or a Minizoom 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted February 5 Share #12 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, jaapv said: Come to think of it the OP would be far better off with a Q and everything set to automatic. But that wouldn’t be film. I find plenty of good advice in this thread. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted February 5 Author Share #13 Posted February 5 Thanks everyone for the valuable input! My main take is, tendency to overexposure and to check a couple of readings (shadow/sun) to find the trade off in the middle. Constantly changing the shutter based on the situation especially in fast moving situations (people in the street), is not an option as the moment is probably gone then. And of course, I am well aware that it is probably better to focus manually and adjust to the lighting conditions for each shot 😉 but if you look at guys like Joe Greer, Andre Wagner etc. it seems to work without that. Probably also experience and regular recalibration to the changing situation but not for each and every shot. When I was in NY last year, this worked quite well with the M11 with Auto ISO which of course is not available with the analog camera! And I believe I would have missed every second shot on the street without zone focusing btw.! And btw. coming from a Q years ago. I am not trying to replicate or to find a way to operate the M (digital or analog) like a fully automatic camera ☺️ My main way of shooting is definitely just use the range finder as it is meant to be used (manually focused with partial or manual adjustment of the exposure/aperture). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesc Posted February 5 Share #14 Posted February 5 I tend to meter once with an external meter. I find the MP’s dots quite distracting (M4 gets more used because of that)—my mind gets drawn to the last reading, and if it’s not spot-on, I end up focusing more on that than the scene or subject. Also, film is really forgiving, so overexposing a little is fine; when you scan, you can easily recover the details. Since I’ve started printing in the darkroom, I’ve become more obsessed with my development times to get the highlights and contrast exactly where I want them. This way, I have more reasonable exposure times for printing, allowing me to dodge, burn, and create my final image. As for zone focusing or pre-focusing, I suggest you learn to guess distances and become familiar with key ones—like 2 meters, 0.7 meters, and 5 meters. After a while, you won’t even think about it; your finger will instinctively move the lens to the right distance. It’s much faster than any autofocus system. Also, film is more forgiving and flexible, so I think slightly imperfect sharpness is actually nicer. A bit of blur, combined with the texture of FB paper and grain, can act like a paintbrush. Honestly, I still think the main reason I keep shooting film is because of the experience of printing in the darkroom. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 6 Share #15 Posted February 6 On 2/4/2025 at 4:32 AM, Jewl said: it might happen that a very sunny situation becomes very shady and dark! Are you just continue hoping for the best? Seems to be a little expensive bet when shooting film Do it the same way you do with a digital Leica. How do you usually do it? First thing I do when I get somewhere is figure out the exposure Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted February 6 Author Share #16 Posted February 6 (edited) vor 33 Minuten schrieb _leicaguru: Do it the same way you do with a digital Leica. How do you usually do it? First thing I do when I get somewhere is figure out the exposure with digital I can fix aperture/exposure but set the ISO to auto which helps to overcome those changing light situations. This is obviously not possible with film 😉Therefore, I believe the advise to get 2 readings and have an average out of both (still tending to overexposure) might be the best way to go... Edited February 6 by Jewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6 Share #17 Posted February 6 The advice already given re. exposure doesn’t seem to have been understood correctly. Take a reading in sunlit areas and another in the shadows. When moving in or out of the light adjust accordingly, maybe it’s f8 in the shadows and f11 in sunlight. The latitude of film will help with any smaller differences. ideally learn to use the camera quickly, focus and exposure settings, in reality how often does one find a situation where they really don’t have time for that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 6 Share #18 Posted February 6 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Jewl said: with digital I can fix aperture/exposure but set the ISO to auto which helps to overcome those changing light situations. This is obviously not possible with film 😉Therefore, I believe the advise to get 2 readings and have an average out of both (still tending to overexposure) might be the best way to go... I never use auto anything. I shoot the same place a lot. So I know that if I'm at ISO200 on a sunny day I'll get at f8, 1/250 in the light and f4 in the shadow. All I do is change the aperture. The camera has a meter so you can figure this out when you get there. The issue really is what do you want in the photos. Are you exposing for the shadows or the light? You can figure out the shadow and the light before you start shooting. If you are waiting for the subjects to be in the light then it doesn't matter. Let the shadows be in shadow. Even if it drops to all black. You don't have to be able to see everything in the frame. It depends. The whole thing about zone focusing and treating the M like a point and shoot is bizarre. It's a manual rangefinder and you have to make the images. It takes thinking and being in control of your exposures. So I never do this point and shoot thing. It may be that the sun is blazing hot and the shadows are quite dark and I want to also expose what is in the shadow. So I'm at ISO400. Then it may be that the light is at f8 1/500 and the shadow areas are at f4 1/250. So I just change that when I move from shadow to light. I figure this as soon as I get there. I don't use auto anything because this will cause all sorts of trouble. You can just move the camera slightly and the whole thing will be so dark because it saw bright at the top right corner or whatever and now my scene is way too dark. I want to know so I never use auto. I choose an ISO based on the time of day and weather conditions and I keep it there. Edited February 6 by _leicaguru Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F456 Posted February 7 Share #19 Posted February 7 Regarding the focusing part of the original post, on the streets I usually find the best and most natural shots are when I shoot from the hip (or more precisely the stomach), often pressing down lightly but firmly against the resistance of the neck strap to create a stable hold. Leaving aside the question of accurate framing, which I have got better at through practice even with film where there is no screen to help with this hold, I think one of the most useful things to practise is distance estimation in conjunction with getting used to where the focusing tab on a wide or normal lens will be for various distances. Of course when circumstances permit I prefer to use the accuracy of the Leica's coincident image rangefinder but if other ways get you a more convincing composition and moment in many circumstances there is nothing to say you shouldn't use them. The key as with most things is practice, practice, practice and also re-evaluation now and then with an open mind. I have shot well-focused pictures with a Nikonos at wider apertures where you have nothing more than estimation and the numbers in the lens for distance guidance; to me this is a source of satisfaction as one of several pleasing aspects of manual film photography. And just speaking from some but by no means vast experience I think the points made about the weakness of zone focusing are somewhat harsh — but then I have to admit I prefer smaller prints to very large ones, and that will mitigate against errors up to a point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted February 8 Share #20 Posted February 8 I use a 21 Leica ASPH lens which really had a large DOF at f8. As to exposure, that's the reason my M3, M6 0.85 sit on the shelf and my M7's carry the load. A clip mounted meter should help a little but it's sometimes experience over decades that wins out. Bracketing can also work at the cost of film. But I bracket anyway even with an exposure reading. Digital Leica's can be set to bracket in auto and my Digital M is set to bracket. -Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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