LLL got competition

[BernardC]

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15 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

But the amount of Lead also matters. Small dose is OK.  … sounds like some political lobbying helps.

The problem with lead in glass isn't in the finished product. It's the manufacturing and especially polishing (= dust) that are health issues.

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[Alberti]

Well, the gnomes in Wetzlar use robot grinders I have seen, in closed cabinets and everyone wears those forensic white suits . . . so nothing then prevents the firm to use lead or radio-active glass elements anymore.

Some more 'education' of the authorities would benefit us all.   (I have lobbied myself . . 🤑)

And in America one would now sensibly just dispense of the rulez I understand. 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

The problem with lead in glass isn't in the finished product. It's the manufacturing and especially polishing (= dust) that are health issues.

I am no medic and know nothing about what level of Lead might be deemed worrisome nor has trying to find out reliable / completely trustworthy info from the www been of much help.

There seem to be some very mixed views on how safe / dangerous using lead crystal tableware might be. One aspect which isn't contested, however, is that lead can - and does - leach out from lead-crystal into certain types of liquid (citric fruit-juices, alcohol etc...) and no-one seems to think that the consumption of even the smallest amount of lead is good for the body.

Here is what appears(*) to be an objective quote from the Wiki entry on Lead Crystal;

"The amount of lead released into a food or drink increases with the amount of time it stays in the vessel. In a study performed at North Carolina State University, the amount of lead migration was measured for port wine stored in lead crystal decanters. After two days, lead levels were 89 μg/L (micrograms per liter). After four months, lead levels were between 2,000 and 5,000 μg/L. White wine doubled its lead content within an hour of storage and tripled it within four hours. Some brandy stored in lead crystal for over five years had lead levels around 20,000 μg/L...

It has been proposed that the historic association of gout with the upper classes in Europe and America was, in part, caused by the extensive use of lead crystal decanters to store fortified wines and whisky. Statistical evidence linking gout to lead poisoning has been published."

It might well be that were one to pour a drink from a 'regular' glass vessel (or, say, a modern lead-free crystal decanter) into a lead-crystal glass and drink it in a short period of time there would be no real health issues worth the mention - the liquid spending so little time in contact with the glass - but long-term storage in lead-crystal glassware does seem to be a Bad Idea.

Philip.

* Whether the study was performed without 'Bias Aforethought' is a moot point but I have no reason to doubt their findings as reported in the article.

Edited January 27 by pippy

[pgk]

5 hours ago, pippy said:

I am no medic and know nothing about what level of Lead might be deemed worrisome nor has trying to find out reliable / completely trustworthy info from the www been of much help.

We have a private water supply which has been tested before and after I removed most of the lead pipes. The regulatory limits in water are <= 10 μg Pb/l and we exceeded this prior to my replacing the lead pipe with modern 'alkathene' plastic pipe, after which the level dropped below this value. So clearly the study in your post indicates vastly excessive quantities of lead leaching from the glass!

And yes, manufacturing processes which handle chemicals deemed to be significantly toxic have been curtailed or require expensive safety systems. Which is why chrome plating is now scarce and very expensive. Just as well, because I remember visiting a brass musical instrumet repair shop as a youngster with my father who repaired woodwing instruments. He needed some keys replating silver and the shop had a vat of silver cyanide ready to do the job. For safety it was in a seperate room but remained an open vat into which stuff requiring plating could be lowered. As far as I am aware any worn out solution went down the drain. I imagine that this has changed over the last 60 years.

[Einst_Stein]

I am curious how Swarovski and iPhone get away from the ban. yes, it seems the dose is low. But how low is low? how is it determined? lobby? 

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

I am curious how Swarovski and iPhone get away from the ban. yes, it seems the dose is low. But how low is low? how is it determined? lobby? 

Simple. Swarovski doesn’t make lead crystal anymore and iPhones are made in China. No rules there.

[Einst_Stein]

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33 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Simple. Swarovski doesn’t make lead crystal anymore and iPhones are made in China. No rules there.

Don't know where you got this wrong infos. Do you know google? try it!

[jdlaing]

13 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Don't know where you got this wrong infos. Do you know google? try it!

 

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[Einst_Stein]

Just some infos for entertainment.

1:  Swarovski is made mainly in China, (since 2009?) including the glass and the final products. 

2: Swarovski glass is made of ~32% Lead.

If you don't want to find the facts for yourself, it's OK to stay that way!

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Einst_Stein said:

1:  Swarovski is made mainly in China, (since 2009?) including the glass and the final products. 

2: Swarovski glass is made of ~32% Lead.

If you don't want to find the facts for yourself, it's OK to stay that way!

1. Not according to a Swarovski spokesman. Swarovski crystal (and all materials and design) is made in Austria. Only final assembly of some pieces is carrried out in China.

2. Not as far as I have been able to discover; "Lead...is not used anymore and all Swarovski crystal-glass produced since 2012 has been lead-free..."

Obviously I cannot verify these commments personally as I've never been to any Swarovski factory whether in Tyrol or China. Could you cite any 'reliable' sources which suggest that Swarovski manufacture their crystal in China and still use lead-crystal glass? I haven't seen anything remotely trustworthy which suggest either situation might be correct.

Philip.

[Keith (M)]

Gosh, does all this mean I'll have to forego my (occasional!) tipple of single malt in an Edinburgh lead-crystal tumbler? 🥵

[Tessar.]

Internet discussions are an amplification of "a bloke said down the pub."

[TomB_tx]

On 1/21/2025 at 6:45 AM, Elliot Harper said:

What do you think about this

https://myfunleader.com/products/aritzlab-classic-35mm-f-1-4-for-m-lens
 

Price seems right to me. LLL got cocky these days jacking up the price significantly.

This Aritzlab looks a lot like LLL a few years ago when they debuted 35mm 8e

Back on topic to the original post, my sample of this lens arrived today. Indeed it looks like a faithful reproduction. Focus on this sample is overdamped to my preference, but that may loosen with use. Focus calibration seems very good on my few test shots. I'll compare more to my VC Nokton 1.4 II as I get a chance, but for the price this is a fair choice.

[Elliot Harper]

2 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Back on topic to the original post, my sample of this lens arrived today. Indeed it looks like a faithful reproduction. Focus on this sample is overdamped to my preference, but that may loosen with use. Focus calibration seems very good on my few test shots. I'll compare more to my VC Nokton 1.4 II as I get a chance, but for the price this is a fair choice.

I got the lens too today. I will do some comparison with summilux 35/1.4 steel rim re-issue over the weekend.

[TomB_tx]

One point on the Aritzlab 35 - the lens flange has a mounting screw in the 6-bit coding area. Don't know if this is true with the Leitz version or not. I coded mine as a steel-rim reissue but had to "white-out" the head of the mounting screw or it read as a 50 1.2.

[Elliot Harper]

27 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

One point on the Aritzlab 35 - the lens flange has a mounting screw in the 6-bit coding area. Don't know if this is true with the Leitz version or not. I coded mine as a steel-rim reissue but had to "white-out" the head of the mounting screw or it read as a 50 1.2.

I’m curious what paint pen product you use to code the lenses? I have tried many products and none of them could stay long on the steel and the black blocks just ended up being smeared off after mounting and unmounting couple of times 

[TomB_tx]

7 hours ago, Elliot Harper said:

I’m curious what paint pen product you use to code the lenses? I have tried many products and none of them could stay long on the steel and the black blocks just ended up being smeared off after mounting and unmounting couple of times 

This is the pen I use. first wipe the flange surface clean with an alcohol swab, let it dry, then mark with a coding template. It works quite well, but I don't change lenses that often.

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[GFW2-SCUSA]

Earlier posts about the lead content of Swarovski crystals prompted me to go dig in their official site to see what they say about thier lead content. I don't know anything about levels for safety nor do I have a dog in this fight. I just don't enjoy it when folk on this site get grumpy over something of which the facts are available from the horse's mouth. So here is what the Swarovski folk have to say:

Swarovski Crystal Innovations

Title:

2003
Swarovski obtains the OEKO-Tex 100 certification for  crystals components, confirming the human and ecological safety of both products and production facilities.

2007
Launch of the "CLEAR" program, comprised of a set of criteria structured by product segment, displaying all relevant restricted and prohibited substances. This represents an important part of all product specifications.

2009
Swarovski launches cadmium-free* red color crystals such as “Garnet” and “Indian Siam”, through innovative patented formulas.

2012
Launch of the Advanced Crystal program, drastically diminishing the lead content to a maximum of 90ppm (parts-per-million), without compromising the brilliance and optical quality of our crystals.

2017

Advanced Crystal is strengthened to feature pioneering formulas that meet the most stringent environmental standards applicable. Lead levels are further reduced to a maximum of 40 parts-per-million, becoming an industry leader in lead-free* crystal.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TomB_tx]

On 1/29/2025 at 5:02 PM, TomB_tx said:

Back on topic to the original post, my sample of this lens arrived today. Indeed it looks like a faithful reproduction. Focus on this sample is overdamped to my preference, but that may loosen with use. Focus calibration seems very good on my few test shots. I'll compare more to my VC Nokton 1.4 II as I get a chance, but for the price this is a fair choice.

I've been shooting more test shots with this Aritzlab and six or so of my other 35s, and in the near range (portraits, etc) the performance is impressive - as noted a bit more "snap" than by original 8E Summicron, but still a pleasing glow wide open. The stiff-focus is smooth and not sticky, so you can focus precisely. The f-stops are very secure, if notchy. The major downfall of my sample is that while the focus accuracy at close distances is very good, by 15-20 ft, you clearly (or fuzzily) see the focus plane moving farther behind the intended focus, and this gets much worse at longer distances. by 100 ft. or so it's unusable, as the focal plane is already nearing infinity. For it to seem good at close distance and way off at far distances it's like the actual focal length is not matched to the focus helical / cam grind. In contrast my new LLL 8-element 35 has very accurate focus over the same distance range as this lens, and my Summarit 35 f2.5 is spot on with amazing modern images. My VC Nokton 35 1.4 II is also very good over the entire distance range, and while it isn't as sharp as my Summarit, its images are very pleasing. So far I think the Nokton is the leader in low cost fast 35s, but I have yet to get and try the Voigtlander 35 f1.5.

I will be sending this tiny lens to DAG to see if he can correct the focus calibration over a useful range of distance. Even if his change is equal to the price of this lens it could still be a bargain,

[Bart D]

What about the ARTRALAB SIMILAR ( Steel Rim ) 35mm F1.4, I wonder.

I don't seem to find any information about real life rendering or what the intention was.
The text on the website could just as well be interpreted as aiming for a look-alike of the steel rim with modern rendering.

The optical block is in line with the steel rim though, contrary to the Aritzlab lens. The latter is much more alike with that of the Voigtländer Classic 35mm.

Anybody found some real-life examples of rendering? Or some straightforward statements on what the purpose was: classic look + (more) modern rendering or classic look and rendering?