The Leica SL3-S Review by Jonathan Slack

[jaapv]

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Well, at my school we were allowed, even encouraged, to have opinions 

[Photoworks]

Leica limits the function of the menu to the essentials. 

there are fewer options on the Leica vs Panasonic, is that a good thing?

 

For years I have used the SL2 as my main camera, the many were good and much improved with the favorite option.
Finally, q2, SL2, M11 came together with a similar button faction and menu.

Then the revised menu of the SL3 came around, nothing we had trained memory for.

I like some changes, but for the most part, it is slower and intuitive than before.
The favorites need to come back. now that we have fewer icons on the quick menu.
The touch icons on the right are useless. Never used them because I blend them out.

If you want to Format a card it is a 6 step process! WHY? And if you are in video mode it is at a different place in the menu! WHY?

You can see why we need favorites back.

what they have done correctly is the Profiles, giving me the option to change all my parameters for different shooting situations.

[mpauliks]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

 

Also, my professional background is based on Niklaus Wirth.

 

(( OT - Pascal forever!!!))

[mpauliks]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

If you want to Format a card it is a 6 step process! WHY?

It is 4 clicks to delete all images please. (Play->Menu->...) Not to open up this discussion here please, but Leica seems to be fine not to format but delete all images.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Well, at my school we were allowed, even encouraged, to have opinions 

My meaning was that most everything we say is an opinion, which is why we don't technically need to write "I think..." or "in my opinion". It's assumed. But often it is helpful to add those phrases to casual conversation like we have here so that someone else doesn't take offense if they don't agree.

Edited January 29 by hdmesa

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Leica limits the function of the menu to the essentials. 

there are fewer options on the Leica vs Panasonic, is that a good thing?

Yes!

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Then the revised menu of the SL3 came around, nothing we had trained memory for.

I had to overcome my change aversion when I beta-tested the new menu. 

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I like some changes, but for the most part, it is slower and intuitive than before.

I think it is better, and the old style feels archaic.

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

If you want to Format a card it is a 6 step process! WHY

You can put it on the control center screen if you need it often. But why would you need it? I love that all Leica cameras allow deleting all images from the image review screen, and I miss it in cameras that do not let it.

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

You can see why we need favorites back.

I was of the same opinion during the beta test. Once I adapted, the favorite would feel strange and convoluted.

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Yes!

I had to overcome my change aversion when I beta-tested the new menu. 

I think it is better, and the old style feels archaic.

You can put it on the control center screen if you need it often. But why would you need it? I love that all Leica cameras allow deleting all images from the image review screen, and I miss it in cameras that do not let it.

I was of the same opinion during the beta test. Once I adapted, the favorite would feel strange and convoluted.

What was difficult for me to adapt to with the SL3/SL3-S menu was the icons themselves. They are small and sometimes not very intuitive. Text in a My Menu is extremely direct and especially easy to use in stressful or fast situations. I remember having a hard time remembering what the SL3 icons meant. I was often taking a 2-3 second beat to translate in my head. I never got used to it.

I wish Leica would give us the option to have the My Menu on the SL3/SL3-S. We all don't process icon-based versus text-based information in the same way or at the same speeds.

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, hdmesa said:

My meaning was that most everything we say is an opinion, which is why we don't technically need to write "I think..." or "in my opinion". It's assumed. But often it is helpful to add those phrases to casual conversation like we have here so that someone else doesn't take offense if they don't agree.

These days, with 'alternative facts', 'gaslighting', movements to discredit science, social media amplification of conspiracy theories etc, I think it is vital that online we distinguish clearly between accepted facts and personal opinions.

I can understand that there may be some dispute about whether a 'fact' is accepted or not, and scientific theories are sometimes found to be not as simple or nuanced as they are initially thought to be, but nevertheless in extreme politics there is a notion that facts are malleable and reversible to suit political ends. I think it important that we make a distinction between truth/facts (even though we may not understand them as much as we think we do) and opinions.

(I'm not arguing with you, I'm just using your post as a means of continuing the discussion - though perhaps it is a discussion best removed to the Bar).

Edited January 29 by LocalHero1953

[hansvons]

59 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

These days, with 'alternative facts', 'gaslighting', movements to discredit science, social media amplification of conspiracy theories etc, I think it is vital that online we distinguish clearly between accepted facts and personal opinions.

Kant identifies knowledge [Wissen], belief [Glaube], and opinion [Meinung] as our three primary modes of “holding-to-be-true” [Fürwahrhalten]. He also identifies opinion as making up the greatest part of our cognition. However, he referred to women as "domestic cattle", which is a gross derogatory opinion and not a fact. (To be fair, he also acknowledged their beauty and sense for the decorative.) However, his insights that opinions rather than facts make up the greatest part of what we believe to be true are probably a fact. 🫠

In an online discussion with a "random dude" (I'm quoting you here, Paul 😉), distinguishing between opinion and facts makes tons of sense. One cannot assume that everybody relies on double-checked knowledge and facts or, conversely, only on opinions and beliefs.

Edited January 29 by hansvons

[hansvons]

Deleted.

 

Edited January 29 by hansvons

[Cronilux]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

I agree with @hdmesa that Panasonics menus are overly complex, like those of most manufacturers. On the one side we have Hasselblad and Leica, on the other side all other manufacturers. For me, no digital camera comes close to the simplicity and great experience of a 35mm film camera.

You can set up a Panasonic once and you can basically operate it just from the body. No need to constantly go into the, truthfully overly complex, menu all the time, thanks to all the custom buttons and dials.

[LocalHero1953]

I have never had a camera that I cannot set up to work as I want it without diving into the menus. The problem is, though, that 'as I want it' changes frequently. So I often want/need to dive into the menus to change some minor aspect. I guess there are cameras with so many buttons you can assign almost anything to a button, but I wouldn't want that. I want a camera with minimal buttons and a simple menu. The Leica is close enough for me.

I have not tried the Panasonic menus, but I know the Sigma fp menus and I prefer them to Leica's. I also have the Blackmagic CC6K; for a video camera the menus are exceptionally simple, but it has a large rear screen on which every item in the top and bottom info bars is touch-sensitive, so I rarely use the text-based menus. Its non-customisable buttons are practical and logically laid out, but irritatingly have no backlight for working in the dark (which I often do in, say, a theatre).

But the Leica has the best balance of simple exterior and usable menus, for my use.

Edited January 29 by LocalHero1953

[hoolyproductions]

Prior to the SL cameras I spent several years with (mostly) Nikon and Sony cameras. I was perfectly happy with the output but always a little frustrated by ergonomics/haptics/aesthetics. During those years I built a picture in my head what my dream camera would look like and how it would function. When the SL came out I felt like the design team had read my mind, albeit a little larger and heavier than my 'utopia' camera. And since then I have also accepted the size/weight and am actually fine with it (with an option to use Q3 43 for situations where the SL is too bulky).

I realise this is very much 'horses for courses' but my this is my main reason for sticking with SL cameras, together with the (in my view) awesome selection of optics from fairly light and inexpensive to state of the art APOs.

I know that others feel differently, for all good own reasons, but the various new features on the SL3/SL3-S are for me a definite overall step forward (I like the new grip, the power button, the menu system and I even get on ok with the much lambasted ISO dial).

[jonoslack]

15 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Leica limits the function of the menu to the essentials. 

there are fewer options on the Leica vs Panasonic, is that a good thing?

 

For years I have used the SL2 as my main camera, the many were good and much improved with the favorite option.
Finally, q2, SL2, M11 came together with a similar button faction and menu.

Then the revised menu of the SL3 came around, nothing we had trained memory for.

I like some changes, but for the most part, it is slower and intuitive than before.
The favorites need to come back. now that we have fewer icons on the quick menu.
The touch icons on the right are useless. Never used them because I blend them out.

If you want to Format a card it is a 6 step process! WHY? And if you are in video mode it is at a different place in the menu! WHY?

You can see why we need favorites back.

what they have done correctly is the Profiles, giving me the option to change all my parameters for different shooting situations.

I felt very much like this to start with, but now I'm working with the M11, Q3 43 and SL3 and I much prefer the SL3 with the configurable quick screen (mine has card format icon on it). Leica put a lot of work into this (with a lot of consultation as well). I imagine it will be the standard for the next generation and who knows whether firmware updates couldn't move the new system onto the Q3 and M11. The profiles are wonderful - I even have different quick menus for different profiles - excellent

best

Jono

[Jeff S]

12 hours ago, hdmesa said:

What was difficult for me to adapt to with the SL3/SL3-S menu was the icons themselves. They are small and sometimes not very intuitive. Text in a My Menu is extremely direct and especially easy to use in stressful or fast situations. I remember having a hard time remembering what the SL3 icons meant. I was often taking a 2-3 second beat to translate in my head. I never got used to it.

I wish Leica would give us the option to have the My Menu on the SL3/SL3-S. We all don't process icon-based versus text-based information in the same way or at the same speeds.

I’ve stayed with the SL2, and this was one reason that I thought switching to the SL3 would be less user friendly, not more, for me. I found it odd that the launch spent so much time on how great these little non-intuitive icons were. I couldn’t imagine using my M bodies for a couple of weeks, then picking up the SL3 and instantly remembering those weird symbols.  

I also found the grip on the new body less comfortable than the SL2, despite many opinions to the contrary.  And since my primary lens is the 24-90, the minor weight savings felt immaterial, possibly worse with the new grip.  
 

The on/off switch was also a complete turnoff (yes, intended). And the top left knob just waiting to be moved… unintentionally.  
 

Mostly, I find nothing seriously lacking in the IQ or performance of the SL2, certainly nothing to justify spending an additional $5K. If only I could delete the entire video function, and any control that unintentionally engages it. 

Edited January 29 by Jeff S

[Cronilux]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

But the Leica has the best balance of simple exterior and usable menus, for my use.

Absolutely agree with that.

[hdmesa]

16 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I’ve stayed with the SL2, and this was one reason that I thought switching to the SL3 would be less user friendly, not more, for me. I found it odd that the launch spent so much time on how great these little non-intuitive icons were. I couldn’t imagine using my M bodies for a couple of weeks, then picking up the SL3 and instantly remembering those weird symbols.  

I also found the grip on the new body less comfortable than the SL2, despite many opinions to the contrary.  And since my primary lens is the 24-90, the minor weight savings felt immaterial, possibly worse with the new grip.  
 

The on/off switch was also a complete turnoff (yes, intended). And the top left knob just waiting to be moved… unintentionally.  
 

Mostly, I find nothing seriously lacking in the IQ or performance of the SL2. If only I could delete the entire video function, and any control that unintentionally engages it. 

I feel like what Leica was trying to do with the SL3 was a good direction, but they just need to put in a little more work to make the interface more intuitive for all users.

A huge improvement would be to add more display options for the quick menu:

1. large icons (default)
2. large icons with small text
3. small icons with large text
4. text only

Even just adding only #4 would be a big help. 

The current icons-only design allows them to avoid the translation work for all the menu languages, but they just need to do the good work so to speak.

[Ken Abrahams]

Using the SL3 and SL3S together as I have found, is so much simpler. It has been quite a relief in fact to have two camera units in sync with each other. Prior to the SL3S I would use the SL2S with the SL3 and although switching between any camera combination is very possible, I much prefer using similar models with the same functions. The SL3S seems to have a more of a precise shutter, a quickness and sound that inspires one to shoot more. Just to hear that continuous shutter sound is awesome.       

[mpauliks]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Ken Abrahams:

Just to hear that continuous shutter sound is awesome.       

Yes!

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[rajkerkar]

Hi everyone. Great and very helpful review Jono. I’m a serious amateur new to the SL system. I normally use the M11-M and Q3 and have happily been using the Lexar 1667x USH-II Silver series SD cards without any problems.

I’m thinking of biting the bullet on the SL3-S. I’m from India and Leica cameras are not exactly popular here I.e. no real deals on the SL2-S here.

My question is, have any of you used the Prograde CF Express Type B Gold series memory cards with the SL3/SL3-S cameras or should I stick with Lexar CFE Type B cards. I’d sincerely appreciate any feedback and advice.

Thanks

Edited February 2 by rajkerkar