Entering (and slowly switching) to Leica System

[JunJung]

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Hi all, new to this forum.

I am an active photographer (photo mainly, video time to time) in the wedding industry with thousands of weddings shot in the past decade.

I started Canon, to Nikon, and now, I feel the need to move / enter the Leica system.

As I grew up, watching gears, drooling over Leica gears, shooting with Leica professionally has always been on my bucket list.

To me, Nikon is a work horse, it has never failed me, love the raw files, and I'm one of those person who does not spend hours and days in editing. (I just have too much volume)

So shooting properly and as good as possible in camera is paramount.

I take my time each shot, even if it means missing some of the lesser important moments as long as I get the climax and critical moments (first kiss / first glance/ etc), I'm happy.

I do implement flash, a lot, Profoto system A2's & B10's combined depending on the weather. 

I shoot strictly manual, so manual trigger is completely OK, and seems like Profoto has Leica triggers already and I read Nikon triggers will work on Leica as pin layout is same, just manual only, no TTL. (Which I don't mind at all)

The main question of this post is to ask you all, specifically, SL2-S, if anyone had professional experience in the wedding / portrait field?

I don't see myself completely switching out of Nikon just yet, but I do see myself having one of each on my shoulders and use it interchangeably based on needs as a start.

With SL3 launched, prices of SL2-S are insane. I found SL2-S with 35mm /f2 Summicron ASPH (non-APO), with extra battery and M-L adapter for $3995.

I mainly shoot primes 35mm and 85mm with Nikon, and occasionally 20mm, which Leica has lenses for all three respectively 21mm, 35mm, 90mm.

I do plan to purchase 90mm f/2 APO as my Nikon 85mm is my main lens when shooting formal portraits before or after the wedding.

So my setup seems like this: Nikon system - during ceremonies where actions are quicker and AF speed is necessary. (I never had issues with Z6ii with AF being slow)

Switch over to Leica after the ceremony, for portraits and receptions where I value creative work more than getting every moment.

For the price above, it's almost no brainer for me to enter Leica system, which I always wanted to shoot, and I through it was a great opportunity.

My wife told me I looked burned out, more tired than ever before.

So I feel like I'm doing this just to make myself find that spark again, to shoot but with that anticipation and curiosity when you first held the camera.

Any thoughts, recommendations? Thank you, Cheers.

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[spydrxx]

It sounds like a severe case of GAS. You do understand, once you enter the Leica scene you are pretty much trapped for life. Joking aside, if I was in your shoes, I'd ask myself ""What is it that my Nikon gear can't do but the Leica gear can?" If you can't find an honest answer to that, it clearly is GAS. I'm not trying to dissuade you, merely suggesting you closely examine your motives and anticipated returns before dropping the cash, which might well be otherwise applied to a nice vacation with your wife.

[jaapv]

In your post I find no rational reason to switch over to Leica - now it is obviously perfectly fine to do things for emotional reasons, but as it is a professional decision, it might be wise to follow some objective criteria. Like what do you expect to gain? 

[Photoworks]

I would suggest renting it first!

the AF struggle is real in low light, I think even the older Canon 5d and Nikon 850 did better than the Leica offering.

I have few SL2 and SL3, in most occasions the camera is great and very easy to use, Just shooting events at night is the challenges are Flash and AF

Even the SL3 is not great, unless the improve the AF in firmware, this camera still uses contrast AF, what in the dark with dark dresses and assists light half of the images are way out of focus.

In a week the SL3s should be out and the biggest improvement is supposed to be the AF

[jaapv]

However, in low light without flash the SL2S shines. As for AF, despite self-reinforcing Internet mobbing ( although there is a basis of truth), for standard ‘use it is quite adequate, in fact above-average in precision. Just don’t expect too much for really fast action especially in AFC. These cameras are not intended for extreme fast action photography. 

[beewee]

As someone who has built a sizeable SL kit, I don’t know why anyone would try to make a living by shooting weddings with an SL system. 

If I were to suddenly change careers and become a wedding photographer, I’d go and buy myself a Sony/Canon/Nikon kit for work and keep shooting SL for fun. There’s no way I’d depend on any Leica system for work unless it’s an M system and, with that, I better have triple or quadruple redundancy on my key bodies and lenses because if anything goes wrong, it’s going to spend at least 6 months in Wetzlar.

Edited January 10 by beewee

[LeicaR10]

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JunJung,   First, welcome to the forum.  As you read through the various threads, you will quickly learn there are many well meaning photographers who offer their sage advice to include myself.  Second, the previous posts to your OP thread, all offer very sound advice.   I suggest you consider Jaapv, Photoworks and Beewee advice as wise indeed.  IMO based on 45+ years with Leica systems of all types, I would not use a SL for wedding photography unless you have backup equipment.  It sounds like your current Nikon kit simply works.  Why change?  My only sage advice is to listen to your wife.  She said you look burned out...you most likely are...burned out and have a case of GAS.  My advice, why not take a few days off, go relax...maybe even go on a vacation with your wife and RELAX.  Your creativity will return after a rest and GAS will pass...no pun intended.  When you retire one day, then pick up a previously owned SL-X or M-X in the future.  In the meantime, professional burnout will not only hurt you physically and mentally, but could well impact your business professionally too.  r/ Mark

[Olaf_ZG]

There are a few wedding photographers here. One quit using Leica after all his cameras failed in very short period and of time. 
 

I have done a fair amount of weddings myself, but Leica was not part of it. What would worry me is difference in color between Nikon and Leica. It will cause inconvenience in your workflow, thus more work. Do you want that?

 

 

[Deeetona]

If you are a wedding photographer, marketing yourself as a "Leica wedding photographer" could give you an edge over all the guy with their Japanese kit. Just do it right, talk about HCB and the decisive moment, and charge more than the others. That will pay for your APO and ASPH lenses and that BDSM camera strap.

[jaapv]

We all understand about an addiction to Leica - here. If you market yourself as a Leica photographer 99% of the public will either give you a blank stare or say “ yes - may I see your portfolio?  Gear is meaningless for a business -  results count.

[Markey]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

However, in low light without flash the SL2S shines. As for AF, despite self-reinforcing Internet mobbing ( although there is a basis of truth), for standard ‘use it is quite adequate, in fact above-average in precision. Just don’t expect too much for really fast action especially in AFC. These cameras are not intended for extreme fast action photography. 

I don`t know how you define fast action but mine can`t (reliably) keep up with some equestrian activities ,which I would regard as quick not fast.

In fact I`ll stick my neck out and say it performs worse than my old Canon 5D2 in that regard.

I know we all make allowances for the model because its so good in other areas but in the long term I don`t think the verdict on its AF capabilities will be that generous.

[DigitalHeMan]

One thing worth remembering is the support for each system from the manufacturer. With Nikon as a working professional you may qualify for NPS - Nikon Professional Services. If you find yourself in an unfortunate circumstance the day before a wedding and your camera is broken, NPS may very well be able to loan you some replacement gear. If you need a specific lens for a one-off occassion, NPS may be able to loan you the lens. Additionally you'll get prioritized repairs, access to special events etc etc.

Leica doesn't offer any of this. Leica offers a nice experience and creative results when everything is working well, but if you're unfortunate enough to experience problems, you may end up being without your camera for many months whilst it is being repaired. By all means have it as a second camera, but don't expect to rely on it for professional use as you can with your Nikons.

An additional point to remember is the different user experience - you will have developed muscle memory for using your Nikon gear. Introducing a camera that operates differently may lead to you losing shots. Can be overcome of course with practice, but sometimes it's worth sticking to a single system for that reason.

[jaapv]

46 minutes ago, Markey said:

I don`t know how you define fast action but mine can`t (reliably) keep up with some equestrian activities ,which I would regard as quick not fast.

In fact I`ll stick my neck out and say it performs worse than my old Canon 5D2 in that regard.

I know we all make allowances for the model because its so good in other areas but in the long term I don`t think the verdict on its AF capabilities will be that generous.

Well, I don’t do horses but I do do Zebras and the rest of wildlife and I don’t have many problems at all. The lenses used are quite important for the AF results as well. After using a ( borrowed) 90-280 the Sigma 70-280 was considerably faster, for instance. The camera is only half the AF. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, beewee said:

As someone who has built a sizeable SL kit, I don’t know why anyone would try to make a living by shooting weddings with an SL system. 

If I were to suddenly change careers and become a wedding photographer, I’d go and buy myself a Sony/Canon/Nikon kit for work and keep shooting SL for fun. There’s no way I’d depend on any Leica system for work unless it’s an M system and, with that, I better have triple or quadruple redundancy on my key bodies and lenses because if anything goes wrong, it’s going to spend at least 6 months in Wetzlar.

I shot several hundred weddings using SL cameras. And hundreds more shooting M’s before that. Moved to Leica from Canon and never looked back.

Gordon

[Markey]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well, I don’t do horses but I do do Zebras and the rest of wildlife and I don’t have many problems at all. The lenses used are quite important for the AF results as well. After using a ( borrowed) 90-280 the Sigma 70-280 was considerably faster, for instance. The camera is only half the AF. 

Thank you. Interesting ,

I started of using a Pany 70 -200 and now have the the 90 -280 although for one reason or another I haven`t done much equestrian stuff since having it.

I`ll keep in mind what you said though .

Edited January 10 by Markey

[keeping_a_balance]

2 hours ago, DigitalHeMan said:

Leica doesn't offer any of this. Leica offers a nice experience and creative results when everything is working well, but if you're unfortunate enough to experience problems, you may end up being without your camera for many months whilst it is being repaired. By all means have it as a second camera, but don't expect to rely on it for professional use as you can with your Nikons.

Only a local experience, but I was in the Leica store in Zurich to consult about waiting time to get my visoflex 2 / hotshoe on the m11 repaired.  The guy at the store did mention that if I was a professional they would provide me with a replacement camera while it was being repaired.   - I did not consult which models they have etc... but felt it was a good step.    maybe will be expanded to other stores.

 

 

[jaapv]

Not only the stores. Leica tries to be as accommodating as they can. They once pulled a M240 from the assembly line as mine died just before my holiday- and me not even a professional. 

[DigitalHeMan]

Certainly they do try. But it's not a structured program like NPS

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[Elliot Harper]

I just love this community. It's like an AA group.

A new addict came, introduced himself. The rest seasoned addicts told him you can do it, you will be sober

Joke aside, I had similar GAS attack like you starting 10 years ago with Nikon. I started a humble Q, then the normal route to Q2, M, SL, Q3...etc.

You are doomed, life is short, enjoy it if you don't have to sell a kidney to heed your GAS

Edited January 10 by Elliot Harper

[BernardC]

16 hours ago, JunJung said:

Any thoughts, recommendations? Thank you, Cheers.

Go for it. You'll notice that the people encouraging you have shot weddings with SLs, and the people discouraging you have not. That could be selection bias, but I'm not convinced.

I moved from Canon to the SL for weddings and never went back. The Canon kit stayed in the boot of the car as a backup, but it was never used again. I eventually gave it away to a young photographer.

What you will notice right away is the difference in skin tones. I won't bother trying to describe it, since we all see colour differently, but it will jump-out at you, especially after years of editing Nikon skin tones (Canon in my case, but same-diff).

The SL never gave me the slightest reliability issue. One photographer reported problems a few years ago, but there's a survey thread on this forum to see if anybody else had the same experience, and very few had any issues at all.

You'll also find that the APO-Summicron-SL lenses are in a different league. There's a great clarity in the in-focus areas, and a great softness outside of that zone that you can't replicate with sliders in Lightroom. They also allow you to shoot in backlit situations that are the nemesis of most lenses. Customers notice this, even if if they can't point-out the difference. One added bonus is that all of the APO-SL lenses have great minimum focus distances, and stay sharp at those distances, so you can shoot details and atmosphere at any time without switching lenses. Stuff like rings and flowers really pop-out, and food shots are dead-easy.

The one issue for you might be AF. Leica's AF is OK, but it's not state-of-the-art. Whether or not that matters depends on your shooting style. I won't comment further because I rarely use AF on any camera. I find that I shoot faster and more accurately with manual focus, and stay "in the zone" more, but that's not the case for everybody. As with any system, you'll quickly find-out what works and what needs tweaking. Wedding participants rarely move like gazelles (except for children, of course), so it's not that difficult an environment.