Leica Lens template proposal

[Altair]

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I am new to these forums and have been going through many of the older and current posts and am seriousely impressed by the amount of knowledge, passion, and talent many members have exhibited. 

As I said, I am new here, and not sure if it's suitable for me to propose an initiative of this scale but no one has ever accused me of being appropriate thus far so here goes.

This project proposal came about as I have recently discovered how sublime Leica and Hasselblad lenses are. I have been a Nikon shooter my entire life ( hobbyist amd family happy snaps, not a very good photographer whatsoever ) and at this point, I am enamored with M and X mount lenses. My appreciation of the hardware supercedes any desire to create great works of art, my objectives are to accomplish two photography coffee table projects and to enjoy the capabilities of these fine optical designs and to see of I can take advantage of them. This is where the project comes in.

I would like to start and participate in the creation of a comprehensive guide of M mount lenses that also includes detailed overviews of their capabilities, what sets them apart from the rest, and what do people consider there best use cases. This would be bolstered with sample photos and guides.

 

Obviously this is a starting point for a serious photographer. Those interested in photography as an art form would want to make the lens in question their own and use it in their own unique way to have their personal vision. What we afe talking about is the entry point and the generic understanding of these lenses. 

There would be some substantial work to be done by the community to get this done, agreeing on the format, the strengths weaknesses and optimal use cases for each lens, that alone could take many months if not a couple of years, but i think it would be a very useful endeavour and we'll worth the effort. Individual threads with incomplete opinions are difficult to follow and when getting a new lens, many months and even years could be wasted before the above mentioned attributes are understood and taken advantage of properly.

 

I hope I was able to articulate the concept I would like to pursue. Interested to see if anyone else thinks this is useful.

FYI I did chance by a pretty good attempt at this. But it's an individual effort and incomplete, but a very good attempt indeed:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mrleica.com/leica-m-50mm-lenses-compared/amp/

 

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[LocalHero1953]

I assume you've seen these:

Leica Pocket Book

Erwin Puts

I should add that Erwin Puts's book is just a starting point for all his authoritative writings on lenses and cameras.

Edited January 4 by LocalHero1953

[Altair]

I had not seen those excellent resources, thank you for sharing them. They are now enroute to my home.

As excellent as they must be, they are different than what I had in mind. I was thinking of something that: was community driven and includes sample images as a proving ground of a lens capabilities and suggested optimal use cases

 

[adan]

I might just add, for online access, this link: https://photo.imx.nl

This was the late Erwin Puts' own "reviews and discussions" blog(ish) website for lenses and other technical (film typef and processing etc.) and Leica things

It is not as comprehensive as his books, especially in its "legacy" form. But quite useful and interesting for the lenses it does cover.

[Altair]

Good stuff indeed! Thank you for that link as well

[pgk]

1 hour ago, Altair said:

Obviously this is a starting point for a serious photographer. Those interested in photography as an art form would want to make the lens in question their own and use it in their own unique way to have their personal vision. What we afe talking about is the entry point and the generic understanding of these lenses.

Tricky. My personal experience is that photographers who are 'serious' and interested in photography as 'art' will use whatever they find suitable for their work but are unlikely to rely on any detailed technical assessment or even other's subjective comments. I would also say that anyone that resolute on finding a lens to fulfil a 'vision' and work with their style will be way beyond an entry point of generic understanding of lenses.

I think that I see what you are getting at but trying to correlate both objective and 'subjective' aspects of a lens's performance is like herding cats because one person's likes may be another's dislikes. Most aspects of character lenses are flaws of one kind or another and of varying levels. I have owned and used a lot on M lenses and whilst some certainly have character, others simply perform poorly, but even these have their proponents (I had a 50/1 Noctilux and realised that I was not a fan at all as an example; others really like its poor wide open performance, but I do not). As others have said, the late Erwin Puts provided a good basis from which to appreciate M lenses and whilst it would be possible to add more data in I would think it difficult to really correlate the more subjective aspects of a lens's performance alongside its known technical aspects.

[jaapv]

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1 hour ago, Altair said:

There would be some substantial work to be done by the community to get this done, agreeing on the format, the strengths weaknesses and optimal use cases for each lens, that alone could take many months if not a couple of years, but i think it would be a very useful endeavour and we'll worth the effort. Individual threads with incomplete opinions are difficult to follow and when getting a new lens, many months and even years could be wasted before the above mentioned attributes are understood and taken advantage of properly.

It sounds more like  we would need to find a monastery to do the work...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leica_lenses

But hey! Maybe some whizz-kid member could set up AI to get the data organized!

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It sounds more like  we would need to find a monastery to do the work...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leica_lenses

As long as vows of celibacy, silence, poverty and asceticism are not demanded. 

Edited January 4 by LocalHero1953

[pippy]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

It sounds more like  we would need to find a monastery to do the work...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leica_lenses

...and even that list has so many omissions. For instance in the L39 section there are only 50mm lenses noted (😸) and still they have missed some (such as the Elmax).

Within each lens group sometimes only one type is used to cover several versions whereas the reality is that often different optical formulae have been used over the course of ;one lens' existence such as the 35mm Summicron and (rigid) 50 Summicron.

The project might seem an interesting diversion but assembling images and info for every Leica lens manufactured over the course of the last century could become the task of a lifetime.

Philip.

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

As long as vows of celibacy, silence, poverty and asceticism are not demanded. 

not sure about the strictures of the other vows but poverty alone would willow out pretty much all would-be Leica owners.

[a.noctilux]

8 minutes ago, pippy said:

The project might seem an interesting diversion but assembling images and info for every Leica lens manufactured over the course of the last century could become the task of a lifetime.

I agree with Philip.

Just I'd add many lifetimes.

So many young Leica users (or newly bought to Leica) are kind of naive thinking "one fits all", in real life things are more subtle than that.

Then as myself, Leitz/Leica lenses choices varied over time and many times.

[Altair]

2 hours ago, pgk said:

Tricky. My personal experience is that photographers who are 'serious' and interested in photography as 'art' will use whatever they find suitable for their work but are unlikely to rely on any detailed technical assessment or even other's subjective comments. I would also say that anyone that resolute on finding a lens to fulfil a 'vision' and work with their style will be way beyond an entry point of generic understanding of lenses.

I think that I see what you are getting at but trying to correlate both objective and 'subjective' aspects of a lens's performance is like herding cats because one person's likes may be another's dislikes. Most aspects of character lenses are flaws of one kind or another and of varying levels. I have owned and used a lot on M lenses and whilst some certainly have character, others simply perform poorly, but even these have their proponents (I had a 50/1 Noctilux and realised that I was not a fan at all as an example; others really like its poor wide open performance, but I do not). As others have said, the late Erwin Puts provided a good basis from which to appreciate M lenses and whilst it would be possible to add more data in I would think it difficult to really correlate the more subjective aspects of a lens's performance alongside its known technical aspects.

Yes that would be the most difficult part. To decide on any aspect of a particular lens would be the most challenging part of this initiative. That said, going with popular opinion and taking pills could be a democratic and efficient way to get this done. A disclaimer stating this is only a staring point aimed at the uninitiated would have to be in place and stressed.

[Altair]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

It sounds more like  we would need to find a monastery to do the work...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leica_lenses

But hey! Maybe some whizz-kid member could set up AI to get the data organized!

To clarify, I am jot suggesting an effort that includes ALL Leica glass. If I was to suggest a starting point, I would break down this proposed project into three phases with 8-10 lenses associated to each phase. We would cover the most important and best selling lenses and can do Karbe, Mandler, and third party.

 

I suggest we start with one lens and see how that goes.

 

Structure of coverage:

Written overview 

Most agreed upon opinion of the lens

Suggested use cases 

Sample photos showcasing strengths ( close distance, bokeh, colour accuracy, or whatever the lens is praised for delivering)

 

This would do. 

[a.noctilux]

I came across this

the richness of the subject is infinite

[a.noctilux]

2 minutes ago, Altair said:

I suggest we start with one lens and see how that goes.

here 281 pages only for 50mm lenses

117 pages for 35mm lenses

etc.

I wonder if there is one fits all how can it be such huge pages from different people

[jaapv]

14 minutes ago, Altair said:

To clarify, I am jot suggesting an effort that includes ALL Leica glass. If I was to suggest a starting point, I would break down this proposed project into three phases with 8-10 lenses associated to each phase. We would cover the most important and best selling lenses and can do Karbe, Mandler, and third party.

 

I suggest we start with one lens and see how that goes.

 

Structure of coverage:

Written overview 

Most agreed upon opinion of the lens

Suggested use cases 

Sample photos showcasing strengths ( close distance, bokeh, colour accuracy, or whatever the lens is praised for delivering)

 

This would do. 

That is already easily accessible in the lens subforums on this site,  Red Dot Forums, FM, Facebook groups, etc.  Just use the search functions. Furthermore most image posters do list the gear and lenses used in the image (sub) forums. 

[UliWer]

The 9th Edition of the Leica Pocket Book linked above by LocalHero in#2 dates from 2023 and covers all lenses from Leica with M-mount (and much more) up to the present. It gives a short though (in most cases) precise description of each version with MTF-graphs. „Use cases“ for a lens are more or less defined by its focal length. If one looks for sample photos one will find something for each lens if one searches the Forum.

Though when it comes to „most agreed upon opinion of the lens“ …. Looking into the Forum might show that there is nothing like this.  

 

[pgk]

1 minute ago, UliWer said:

Though when it comes to „most agreed upon opinion of the lens“ …. Looking into the Forum might show that there is nothing like this.  

If everyone agreed then perhaps there would be no need for the forum?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

People will always need a self-confirming bubble. 

[Steadimann]

I get the idea as when I ventured into Leica world I was overwhelmed by models, revisions, etc. there are a number of various comparisons done online by various photographers comparing different lenses. It would be impossible to have some kind of objective testing without "standardizing" all with proper methodology. 

What I would say is missing - one place for all organized material related to each specific lens. By reading all you would be able to get an understand what people think, how does it behave etc despite the same lens being tested in many photographers' hands, locations etc. Indeed, when indicated information sources to AI, AI could make generalizations for a newbie to start with..