Show your M11 jpegs to the color-blind and others

[3D-Kraft.com]

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I still do not understand, what you want to demonstrate in this context with WB adjusted and processed images.
The image in post #19 still has some magenta tint.

[lct]

23 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

I still do not understand, what you want to demonstrate in this context with WB adjusted and processed images.[...]

That the so-called magenta cast is only a problem for people unable or unwilling to adjust WB in post. Then if you see some color cast in my images it can only be deliberate or due to user error.

[JimmyCheng]

sooc jpeg of m11 is indeed unbearable. If it were not for the custom profile I created for the m11 in LR, I would have ditched my m11s long time ago.

[don daniel]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb lct:

That the so-called magenta cast is only a problem for people unable or unwilling to adjust WB in post. Then if you see some color cast in my images it can only be deliberate or due to user error.

I don’t know where you’re being held captive, but I’m happy for you that it’s such a beautiful garden where you’re playing around with your camera. It’s difficult for me to understand what you’re trying to show, prove, or say. But I wish you lots of fun with it. We are a group of individualists here. However, as a contribution to the discussion about whether the JPGs from the M11 are usable or if the M11’s white balance is suitable, I am not sure if I can take your posts seriously. 

[lct]

Another jpeg snap, same processing.
• M11, Apo-Telyt 135/3.4, f/3.4

[jgeenen]

I did my first color negative prints about 45 years ago. I used test strips where the magenta and cyan tint of the light source was adjusted in small increments. Once the color cast of the output flipped from (for example) too magenta to too green, I did a separate test strips with smaller increments starting with the last setting before the „flip“. That taught me the following:

a) color casts are very difficult to detect if the colors are already saturated. Always take samples that include at least very muted colors.

b) it is easy to „overcorrect“ an image. If so, one need to adjust the changes in more granular steps.

c) color recognition is highly dependent on brain‘s opinion. An image carefully corrected can look wrong afterwards or seen by other people. One might not be able to see over or under correction easily.

d) color temperature was the least important variable in that game - a „too warm“ picture always looked better than a „too magenta“ one.

e) there are obviously many other variables that influence the color of the result, some of which are difficult to identify or to control.

why do I post this? This thread shows many examples with saturated colors and some where the iteration after the „flip“ might not have been fully completed. Further I see a lot of opinion based judgement rather than an objective approach (I however admit that it is hardly possible to do a neutral comparison within the technical and emotional restrictions of a forum software and it’s implementation and utilization).

 

[lct]

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Again a jpeg, same processing.
• M11, Summicron 75/2, f/11

[jaapv]

Please do not make this a fighting thread.  The fact that the camera tends to magenta-red has been firmly established from post 1 in the relevant thread. The fact that it is easily corrected in postprocessing/import has been firmly established at an early stage as well. It is also clear that some individuals are highly bothered, some don't care and others don't see the shift. That is no reason to turn this into a religious schism type of thread, nor into a thread to try and force Leica's hand. 

[Tseg]

When I (only recently) started to explore Leica cameras and bought the Q3 43, one driver behind me also getting the M11 was so many comments lauding Leica’s exceptional “color science”.  In fact, I am not aware of any color criticism’s on the Q forums.  After my Q purchase and realizing I spent most of my effort using it in manual mode, I added an M11.   Little did I know there is “a whole nother world” over here.  It is interesting that the same sized sensor across 2 different platforms is and/or is perceived so different.  I’m glad I’m a novice and can’t perceive the differences.  I’m enjoying both cameras, and now use the M11 a lot more… so maybe Leica knows what they are doing?

 

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[lct]

As far as i'm concerned, i have no problem with opposing viewpoints. I've explained my points on several occasions and have no intention of repeating myself in this thread, unless new questions are raised if anything. What i'm interested in, as the OP, is showing that one can love the colors of the M11, which i think are gorgeous, and that one can do so with jpeg files to avoid the own colors of raw converters if we don't like them. The way to do this is simple and has been known for as long as digital photography has existed. It consists in adjusting and, if necessary, correcting the white balance, which can be done on jpeg as well as raw files in post-production. It's the jpeg files i'm interested in here, and as one of my opponents stated himself, it's generally a simple job. I've been doing it on jpeg files since 2002 (2003 in the photo below), and i'll continue to do so on M11 jpeg files, in this thread, if the mods don't mind needless to say.
• Digilux 1, f/4.3

[jaapv]

Well, there is such a thing as overstating your point... 

[lct]

Another 75mm jpeg, same processing as above.
• M11, Summicron 75/2, f/5.6

[andybarton]

5 hours ago, lct said:

What i'm interested in, as the OP, is showing that one can love the colors of the M11, which i think are gorgeous, and that one can do so with jpeg files

But, by choosing to include “the colourblind” in the title you are implying that those who don’t like M11 colours (as you do) are, in a fundamental way, “inferior”.

As the grandson of a completely colourblind grandfather who could only see shades of grey, the father of a colourblind son and husband of a very rare colourblind wife, this is verging on the offensive. No offence has been taken as I know that you didn’t mean any, but it’s worth considering. 

[LocalHero1953]

To be fair to @lct, he wasn't the one who introduced 'colourblind' into the M11 debate; it was used pejoratively in the other thread to explain an opponent's different point of view. I agree it's not the best line to continue, but the whole argument has got a bit stagnant anyway. 

Edited January 5 by LocalHero1953

[lct]

As I said in my OP, "this thread was inspired by a conversation i had recently with a LUF member who claimed that those who like the colors of M11 jpegs should be tested for at least partial color blindness." I didn't take this seriously and i hope the same goes for everyone here and elsewhere, including my older sister who is color-blind but hasn't lost her sense of humor for all that.

 

[lct]

• M11, Macro-Elmar 90/4, f/8, jpeg processed as above
 

[lct]

•

Edited January 6 by lct

[lct]

Works fine with old lenses too. Those colors remind me of the K25 of my youth. M11, coated Elmar 35/3.5 from 1948, f/8, jpeg processed as above.

[swatch]

Colour is difficult to master well, no wonder why Leica launch monochrome in M and Q.

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Hallo,

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[jaapv]

On 1/4/2025 at 11:57 PM, jgeenen said:

I did my first color negative prints about 45 years ago. I used test strips where the magenta and cyan tint of the light source was adjusted in small increments. Once the color cast of the output flipped from (for example) too magenta to too green, I did a separate test strips with smaller increments starting with the last setting before the „flip“. That taught me the following:

a) color casts are very difficult to detect if the colors are already saturated. Always take samples that include at least very muted colors.

b) it is easy to „overcorrect“ an image. If so, one need to adjust the changes in more granular steps.

c) color recognition is highly dependent on brain‘s opinion. An image carefully corrected can look wrong afterwards or seen by other people. One might not be able to see over or under correction easily.

d) color temperature was the least important variable in that game - a „too warm“ picture always looked better than a „too magenta“ one.

e) there are obviously many other variables that influence the color of the result, some of which are difficult to identify or to control.

why do I post this? This thread shows many examples with saturated colors and some where the iteration after the „flip“ might not have been fully completed. Further I see a lot of opinion based judgement rather than an objective approach (I however admit that it is hardly possible to do a neutral comparison within the technical and emotional restrictions of a forum software and it’s implementation and utilization).

 

I did use a colorimeter and the. Color judging filter set by Kodak but was still not  objective.