Why ISO dial on M-A?

[jaapv]

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13 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

Learn something new every day.  Thanks for the link to GOST.  I had never heard of it but makes sense that USSR would have something separate from DIN (German) or ASA (American).  Made for some interesting reading.

What do you think the “Sunny 16” rule would look like in GOST?

солнечный 16

[pedaes]

17 hours ago, williamj said:

I mention this for completeness. 

As in Post #7 ☺️

Edited December 28, 2024 by pedaes

[alphonse2501]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:08 AM, Al Brown said:

It is simple and practical - black arrow for B&W film and red for color. A very smart design choice for an active or passive shooter. No need for Japanese style back windows for cut out film packaging tabs or 3D printed hot shoe covers with sensitivity markings to remember.

That's on some late SLR hinge style back door designs. Earlier than that would be a holder on back for you to tear a tab from the small film card box and put it in, or no holder at all.

[pippy]

On 12/27/2024 at 9:27 AM, ktmrider2 said:

...Who here remembers setting ASA or DIN??...

I'd guess pretty much everyone over the age of 40 or thereabouts...

Philip.

[adan]

Might want to revise that estimate, except for those who were photographers as toddlers.

ISO replaced ASA/DIN about 40 years ago (proposed 1974, fully-adopted world-wide by 1987).

Kodak adopted it fully by 1983, but was already on the pathway when it named its "new" Kodachromes (1974) by their ISO speed, knowing that that would soon become universally understood, regardless of language.

Kodachrome 25 and Kodachrome 64 replacing Kodachrome II and Kodachrome-X.

[adan]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:59 AM, Squidproquo said:

In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?

You mean minimalist, fully mechanical, and meterless - just like the M3, M2, and M4? (1954-1970ish)?** Which the M-A is supposed to replicate.

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As to usefulness, that applies to both ends of the spectrum:

1) the snapshooter, who may have the same roll of film sitting in the Leica for a year, with snaps from two Christmas's on the same roll. 🤪  Who recalls which film was put into the camera even 2 months ago, let alone a year or more? Without gluing stuff on the camera - or preferably, using a built-in dial.

2) the working photojournalist (or wannabee), who may be using 3-5 cameras at once, all with different films loaded (and possibly ALL otherwise-identical "silver Leicas") to fully cover the subject for all markets:

Larry Burrows "in the field" in Vietnam, 1967.

- slow color
- fast color, for action, or indoor light with a different color balance (note the "light bulb" vs. "sunlight" settings on the dial above).
- color negs for quick processing/prints
- color slides for best quality
- B&W ISO 20-100 for best quality
- high-speed B&W 400 up to "pushed" 3200.

**M5 (1971-76) had a meter; M4-2 and M4-P (1978-84) had cheaper "write/eraseable" (sort of) gray plastic circles embedded.

http://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/images/a/ac/M4-p-b.jpg

[Siriusone59]

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I find the dial to be very useful reminding me the type and speed of the film I have in the camera.  I just wish it had one additional indicator to tell me whether I had loaded 24 or 36 exp. six months or more ago.😉

[pop]

6 hours ago, adan said:

it named its "new" Kodachromes (1974) by their ISO speed

which happened to be the same value as the ASA speed which was also well known all over the world.

[LocalHero1953]

6 hours ago, Siriusone59 said:

I find the dial to be very useful reminding me the type and speed of the film I have in the camera.  I just wish it had one additional indicator to tell me whether I had loaded 24 or 36 exp. six months or more ago.😉

I just wish the dial would tell me if I had remembered to reset it the last time I changed the film in the camera🙄

Edited December 29, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[TomB_tx]

6 hours ago, pop said:

which happened to be the same value as the ASA speed which was also well known all over the world.

Well, ASA stands for "American Standards Association" which originated in the 1920s. Other countries (such as Germany with DIN) had their own standards, and there's some nationalist pride in not using another countries designation. (Around 1968 the US standards group adopted the ANSI designation for "American National Standards Institute" - and I recall having to edit a lot of references in technical documents from ASA standards to specify ANSI.)

ISO is for the "International Organization for Standards" so it removes the prejudice against a specific nation (in theory). True, for film the ISO rating is basically the same as the old ASA number, but implies it is universal.

Who knows, with various countries increasing stress on nationalism maybe we'll see new labelling requirements for film and cameras... I don't expect the USA to really adopt metric measures in my lifetime.

[Pyrogallol]

"BS" for British Standard.

To me film is ASA and digital is ISO.

[01af]

Am 27.12.2024 um 08:59 schrieb Squidproquo:

... a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity? Strange design choice in my view.

You never used film cameras, did you? It's a very useful design actually, especially when you have more than one camera body in use at the same time.

.

Am 27.12.2024 um 11:34 schrieb Derbyshire Man:

[...]

And then a week later it begins again ...

Yeah. Wasn't it an enchanting age?

.

vor 31 Minuten schrieb TomB_tx:

... for film the ISO rating is basically the same as the old ASA number ...

It may look the same to those who don't understand it but it'sn't.

For example, ASA 100 = 21 DIN = ISO 100/21°.

 

[davidmknoble]

Interestingly, I just finished a roll of film in my M3 today.  I have 3 different films with me and I am using a manual meter (because the M3 was so minimalist it did not have a built in meter).  What I really like about the old dials on the backs is that I can distinguish between black and white, color and transparency film and so I know how to expose (shadows vs highlights) and I put the speed I’m shooting at, not the speed of the film.  So, I shoot Ilford FPan 50 at ISO 25 and put the dial to b/w film, ISO 25.  Then it is a little like carpentry, measure twice and shoot, but I know I have the right ISO after a day or two of digital shooting, it’s just good practice to be sure.  

And for me, I don’t want big ugly bright colored tape on my camera, kind of defeats the point of enjoying the shoot.  I’ll look if I need to, but otherwise don’t want it in the way!

The interesting feature on the screw mounts and M3/M2 bodies that started disappearing was the self-timer.  It is actually kind of fun to use on a tripod sometimes, but clearly not necessary.