M4-P viewfinder issue ?

[Elsee]

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Hello, 

I just got a mint condition M4-P from a reputable seller. Looks excellent except there is some haze in the viewfinder. It's not noticeable when looking through it but this is when pointing a strong light on it.  

The seller said it's not hazy enough to justify a cleaning and it's a common issue on this camera (but it was not advertised). 

Do you think it is cleanable with CLA or is it something more serious like a semi transparent mirror issue ? 

I keep it if I can service it but if it's unreparable or if it cost half the camera, I don't want to. 

Thank you for your help and merry Christmas :)

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[davidmknoble]

@Elsee, Merry Christmas!

If it is mint, and it has haze in the viewfinder and the store said it isn’t hazy enough to justify, then I would think it likely sat for a long time unused, and we don’t know where (in the open, in a box, etc).  So, it is also likely it has not had a CLA and the grease in some places can also be thick or hard.

I would absolutely get a CLA.  It is common for an unused camera to get haze in the optics near the grease (same with lenses).  I have an M4-P that has a new viewfinder (MP style) except for the front glass, which is different.  But, CLA’s from Leica Germany for film cameras are effectively a year right now.  You can consider reaching out to Don at DAG camera and there are others in the US (not knowing where you are).

You have a choice.  If the mint look is what you want, you’ll need to likely invest some more money.  Otherwise, I would consider returning it and looking for an M4 that has had a recent CLA from someone.  Advertising haze in the viewfinder should have been noted on this listing.

Just my opinons!

[TomB_tx]

Most of the used rangefinder cameras I’ve collected have had some haze or other degradation in the viewfinder, so it’s very common and I wouldn’t consider it grounds for taking action against a seller. I’ve normally used and enjoyed such cameras for what they are, since I have degradation due to my age too. 
I also normally have these nice cameras eventually serviced (CLA or more restoration) to return the to a more pristine condition, so I consider that as a normal addition to the purchase price, and does make the nicer to use.

I bought my M4 new in 1968 and have taken good care of it, but it benefited from a full CLA a few years ago, just from normal aging.

[spydrxx]

I would hope the "reputable seller" gave you a good price to discount the viewfinder condition, or the opportunity to return it for a full refund. Personally I would return it, but only you can determine if it is a significant issue. I've purchased Leicas in much worse condition over the years, but always asked the seller for a discount from the asking price to accommodate either a cla or to pay for a repair. Sometimes I've elected to take a pass when I encounter a seller who is not accommodating or who has inadvertantly misrepresented the condition of a camera or lens. Good luck with your decision and happy holidays to you.

[jankap]

What does one do with a viewfinder? One looks through, I think. If that is OK, I would do nothing and take photos.

Film handling is waiting for you. Are the pictures OK? That is, what a camera is made for.

Edited December 24, 2024 by jankap

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Elsee said:

...Do you think it is cleanable with CLA...I keep it if I can service it but if it's unreparable or if it cost half the camera, I don't want to...

If you are reasonably mechanically minded and have a few basic tools you might consider carrying out the job yourself. Removing the top - even for a beginner - should take no more than ten minutes or so. Here's a video showing how it's done;

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=leica+m4-p+top+plate+removal#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8ba01bcf,vid:G_PdNM6b_Us,st:0

FWIW I carried-out a similar task on my M2 and it was a piece of cake. I didn't have the special ring-spanner type thing for the circular bits but some careful use of a pair of needle-nosed pliers worled just as efficiently.

If you do decide it's worth a go then there are three pieces of advice I'd give. The first is to take numbered notes at every stage - I actually made little sketches which were a help during re-assembly. The second is to Take Your Time; there are no prizes for carrying out the work in record time. The third would be to Not Work Over Black-coloured Table-top!...

Best of good fortune and Happy Christmas to you, too.

Philip.

[Elsee]

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Hello, 

Thank you everyone for your response. 

I asked the seller if he had noticed the issue and sent him a picture, his response was something like "yes it's a bit hazy but not much, and it's a common issue on this model". I bought the camera advertised as mint-: like new without box, fully fonctional. There was nothing written about the viewfinder.  

@spydrxx I don't think I would get a discount since the seller said the viewfinder is not worth cleaning. It's mainly a psychological issue, I'm not pleased to discover the haze since I bought a mint (and expectedly trouble free) camera. The shop offers a 30 days return policy, at buyer's expense but I can send it back. Really wanted to like my first Leica but it's an expensive purchase for me and I'm not certain about the cost of a CLA and the result. Can spend a few bucks more to get it serviced but I wonder if it's cleanable. Thank you @pippy but I won't take the risk to do it myself, too precious (and expensive !). 

My take is except that the camera looks lovely and I first wanted to avoid return but from a logical reasoning, if I pay a few hundred more for a CLA, I could have bought a newer M6 with metering and maybe even a recently serviced one...
I'm trying to get quotations for CLA in Europe. The shop is closed for holidays so I can think about it. 

Merry Christmas everyone, enjoy and take nice pictures

[lexffm]

I recently took my M4-P to CLA to Wetzlar. Just three weeks later I was informed that no M4-Ps can be repaired at the moment due to a lack of spare parts. You always have to remove the cover plate, inside there is a plate for the closure, which was made of plastic for the first time in this model, and unfortunately it is becoming porous. That's why it is not being repaired at the moment. Customer care said I should ask every six months whether the spare part is available again. The part is produced in the factory in Portugal, but they are busy with other things...