SL3: Discrepancy between LV and playback histogram.

[SrMi]

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I do not remember that it was that way before the firmware update, but I see a difference of about 2/3 of a stop in the LV vs. playback histogram. The playback histogram is closer to the raw histogram and is about 2/3 of a stop brighter.

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[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I do not remember that it was that way before the firmware update, but I see a difference of about 2/3 of a stop in the LV vs. playback histogram. The playback histogram is closer to the raw histogram and is about 2/3 of a stop brighter.

Does the exposure shown in EXIF match what the meter was showing at the time the shot was taken? I've noticed with my SL2-S, that the exposure preview sometimes gets about 2/3 stop darker when I half-press the shutter button, which changes the histogram. But it's consistently the same histogram between live view and playback otherwise. 

[Carrot]

I had this before the firmware update, the playback brighter and the histogram shifted to the right, compared to how the EVF and histogram appeared prior to taking the photo. 

[SrMi]

36 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Does the exposure shown in EXIF match what the meter was showing at the time the shot was taken? I've noticed with my SL2-S, that the exposure preview sometimes gets about 2/3 stop darker when I half-press the shutter button, which changes the histogram. But it's consistently the same histogram between live view and playback otherwise. 

Exposure shown in the EXIF match, and it occurs in fully manual mode as well. 

Half-pressing the shutter does not change the histogram in LV. It seems that the discrepancy varies with the scene. I am enabling a 1-second preview.

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

Exposure shown in the EXIF match, and it occurs in fully manual mode as well. 

Half-pressing the shutter does not change the histogram in LV. It seems that the discrepancy varies with the scene. I am enabling a 1-second preview.

Maybe a factory reset is in order.

It would actually be great if Leica started taking the histogram from playback from the DNG somehow instead of the JPEG or JPEG embedded preview.

 

[SrMi]

45 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Maybe a factory reset is in order.

It would actually be great if Leica started taking the histogram from playback from the DNG somehow instead of the JPEG or JPEG embedded preview.

 

I did a factory reset already, but good suggestion. I’d be happy if Leica would generate consistent histograms, even if they were from JPEG. 

[jaapv]

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Maybe a factory reset is in order.

It would actually be great if Leica started taking the histogram from playback from the DNG somehow instead of the JPEG or JPEG embedded preview.

 

They did it once. On the M9 Monochrom. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Maybe a factory reset is in order.

It would actually be great if Leica started taking the histogram from playback from the DNG somehow instead of the JPEG or JPEG embedded preview.

 

The original M Monochrom had a RAW-based histogram. This was particularly useful for avoiding blown highlights, which are especially problematic without color channel recovery.

Jeff

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I did a factory reset already, but good suggestion. I’d be happy if Leica would generate consistent histograms, even if they were from JPEG. 

I don't have my SL3 any longer, but I seem to remember having issues with playback images not being the same exposure as what I was seeing in the EVF. By the time I sold it, I don't remember that being a problem, but I can't remember what I did about it. I don't think I ever checked the histogram as I assumed it was a live feed issue. I have a vague memory of it being iDR, which sometimes seems to get reactivated with a reset.

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I don't have my SL3 any longer, but I seem to remember having issues with playback images not being the same exposure as what I was seeing in the EVF. By the time I sold it, I don't remember that being a problem, but I can't remember what I did about it. I don't think I ever checked the histogram as I assumed it was a live feed issue. I have a vague memory of it being iDR, which sometimes seems to get reactivated with a reset.

iDR is off, but it affects only the shadows, not the highlight clipping.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

They did it once. On the M9 Monochrom. 

 

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The original M Monochrom had a RAW-based histogram. This was particularly useful for avoiding blown highlights, which are especially problematic without color channel recovery.

Jeff

We should petition Leica to bring this back and expand it to color cameras. This is the kind of stuff that can help set Leica apart from their competitors and help justify the higher prices. The least we need is an RGB histogram on playback (Fujifilm) if not both live view and playback (Canon).

 

[hdmesa]

Just now, SrMi said:

iDR is off, but it affects only the shadows, not the highlight clipping.

Gotcha, probably wasn't the same issue then.

When you did the reset, did you reload your user profiles? Sometimes those carry firmware glitches forward.

Am I right to assume the images in live view and playback look the same but only the histogram changes? Or do the playback images look 2/3 stop brighter to match the playback histogram difference?

[SrMi]

35 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Gotcha, probably wasn't the same issue then.

When you did the reset, did you reload your user profiles? Sometimes those carry firmware glitches forward.

Am I right to assume the images in live view and playback look the same but only the histogram changes? Or do the playback images look 2/3 stop brighter to match the playback histogram difference?

The issue persists before loading profiles. The brightness in LV and image review are similar, but they may differ since the histograms differ.

[hdmesa]

45 minutes ago, SrMi said:

The issue persists before loading profiles. The brightness in LV and image review are similar, but they may differ since the histograms differ.

Interesting. Sounds like live view is just not working right. Does it do this in all metering modes? A glitch like this sound like it would be limited to an evaluative mode like Multifield or Highlight Weighted.

[hdmesa]

Could also be the lens corrections are playing games. Might try an adapted lens with a dummy adapter and no M or R profile selected.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Could also be the lens corrections are playing games. Might try an adapted lens with a dummy adapter and no M or R profile selected.

I noticed that the discrepancy differs with the scenes. In some scenes, there is almost no difference in the histograms.

[hdmesa]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

I noticed that the discrepancy differs with the scenes. In some scenes, there is almost no difference in the histograms.

That also screams evaluative mode jitters. Multifield uses a basic form of subject and scene detection to understand what areas of the frame to prioritize for exposure. Very slight shifts in framing can change the calculation between when you start to press the shutter and when the shutter actually fires.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

That also screams evaluative mode jitters. Multifield uses a basic form of subject and scene detection to understand what areas of the frame to prioritize for exposure. Very slight shifts in framing can change the calculation between when you start to press the shutter and when the shutter actually fires.

This happens in manual mode as well, no exposure changes between LV, shutter half press and recorded image. It may be that LV “normalizes” high contrast scenes which makes the histogram different.

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[hdmesa]

27 minutes ago, SrMi said:

This happens in manual mode as well, no exposure changes between LV, shutter half press and recorded image. It may be that LV “normalizes” high contrast scenes which makes the histogram different.

I just tried manual mode on my SL2-S (6.1.0) with several metering modes and lighting scenarios, setting playback to 3 seconds so I could quickly compare the live view histogram to the playback histogram. In very few instances was the histogram at the moment of capture the same as playback. Most of the time it shifted slightly, sometimes even the peaks move left or right and/or appear taller or shorter.

I think what we see in live view is an estimation or prediction based on the running feed, which will always be different than reading back the exposure, which is a single moment in time that can be accurately read.

Maybe you're seeing a bigger difference than me, though. Due to the larger amount of data the SL3 is processing in live view, the histogram may have trouble keeping up or being as accurate.

Edited December 14, 2024 by hdmesa

[davidmknoble]

The iDF setting does affect the EVF live view.  So does enhanced live view.’

On page 121 of SL3 manual (english) it says the histogram represents the brightness displayed and the settings on the camera affect it, so it may not be the histogram of the final image.  It also represents the histogram of the crop shown, which is likely why it is affected by what is shown.

I have long sought what I thought we had with the original SL which was more accurate representation of the final image in the DNG.  So, I leave the iDF off, enhanced live view off and leave the JPEG settings at zero watching the histogram from there.  It’s close, but a great shot on the preview is likely dark on the DNG.  Luckily that saves highlights and we have good shadow recovery.

At least that is my experience.