M11-D completely bricked

[username]

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2 hours ago, pgh said:

Even if it's in the vast minority of sold units, I can't risk going without a project camera for months at a time - and I would need to by trading in what I've got, which has a long track record of just working.

This.

All the people posting laughing smileys and stating "well, my unit is working!" don't realize that people who actually need a reliably working camera are rather opting for another brand.
This is exactly the reason why so few serious photographers shoot Leica.
It's only the rich for whom photography is merely a hobby that can shrug their shoulders because for them if one goes bad they just use one of their other M's, or SL's, or they X2D, or whatever 🙂

Edited December 12, 2024 by username

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[lct]

And the Leica bashing goes on and on... Strange that it happens at each firmware update, don't ask me why 🙄

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, username said:

Pardon my french, but what the fuck???

WTF is sufficient. I am new to this thread, can you remind me which Leica camera you have and why?

Edited December 12, 2024 by pedaes

[username]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

And the Leica bashing goes on and on

There's some valid point though, right?
I'd really love to hear some counter-arguments instead of you just rolling your eyes at me.

Actually I'd love to be proven wrong 🙂
You know, like a lot of others probably I was very determined to spend a pile of money on a digital M system this year, but the more I read up on it the more unsure I am if that's really a smart idea.
I love Leica (or used to at least), and I really would like to shoot amazing quality full frame digital in a small and light package, with an optical finder - so basically I do want an M.
But seing how many QC issues there are, and how badly Leica's service apparently is I'm thinking of abandoning that plan.
I'm definitely waiting for that compact GFX Fuji is going to release first, and I do hope there'll be a new FF compact option from Sony as well.

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, username said:

I was very determined to spend a pile of money on a digital M system this year, but the more I read up on it the more unsure I am if that's really a smart idea.

So, no actual personal experience and 29 posts. Right?

[scott kirkpatrick]

My experience with messing with the M11-D without using the aid of Fotos is that it is hard to keep even one of its two buttons depressed for the 5 or 12 seconds that are required for most internal control setting changes.  If you look through the viewfinder to watch the time count up, you see it stop and return to zero and restart when you haven't pressed hard enough continually.  So pressing both buttons and keeping them pressed for 30 seconds is really a HARD reset.  I can see why it took three tries.

[pgh]

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1 hour ago, username said:

..the best of this video being the fact that they returned his M10 to him in a faulty state, then told him he has to send it in again and wait some more months for them to this time actually install the proper firmware - and he then drove from GB to Wetzlar himself, and only then they fixed it right away.

Pardon my french, but what the fuck???

My M10 went back twice. Bought it new - sensor problem, ISO dial problem - something else, I forget. It was a good 7 months or so from when it first arrived on my doorstep until the time it got consistent and uninterrupted use. To the camera's credit, since then it's been great, and it is still in regular use. 

If I'd had a real vendetta against the company I could have done more, but I didn't - I just wanted stuff to work - a rather meager expectation it seemed looking at the beat up Nikon's I'd been carrying around problem free for over a decade. I was, at that time, however a working editorial photographer who was working with gear that was worth more than my car or anything else I owned - fairly common for working documentarians btw. The product - relatively expensive, unreliable, did not at all align with the profession they had most often marketed towards. Alas, I know I'm the sucker. I still bought it in. But the "bashing" is well deserved (if you'd call relaying personal negative experiences bashing - in my world we use that word for aggressive insults). 

17 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I can confidently say that you can buy a M body with peace and there's a very high chance it will be flawless. Leica is a small company with 1% camera market share after all, their service cannot be on par with Canon and their CPS or similar (not that I am by any chance justifying the horrid repair wait).

Just a friendly advice tho, while there is some truth in many of your statements, barking loudly in a forum full of die hard Leicaphiles is not always useful, fruitful nor effective. It is similar to convincing somebody that their favorite political candidate is in fact an idiot - completely useless and gravitating to flame wars.

And some of us can't. C'est la vie. In fact, rather absurdly, I can confidently say the opposite - out of three tries I've never gotten something that was ready to leave the shop! 

When someone spends close to 10k on a camera and it doesn't work, I'd imagine it's of relative use to find out they are not alone in said situation. The only thing I dislike more than Leica's luxury branding is the contingent of users who gaslight anyone who finds real flaws with them. Perhaps it's out of an ability to afford not caring about $10k problems, but that's a sort perspective very few in this world have. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by pgh

[Derbyshire Man]

I've got three of the things, M11M, M11P and M11D. They rarely froze from new and once I realised I could take the battery out it was suboptimal but not deal destroying. When I first bought the first camera I quickly realised that shooting to internal memory only or wiping the SD card after every transfer essentially rendered them entirely crash free. That's not acceptable of course but is a reasonable initial mitigation. I've been involved in the beta programme and have found that now, even with extreme provocation they seem very crash resistant.

They're not perfect though, I do have the odd issue, turn arounds for repairs are far too long, there have been no mitigations such as being able to pre-book cameras/lenses in to minimise time without (despite some of us writing to request this).

Do I regret having one? No, Do I regret having 3? No! I love them despite the issues.

If however I had one and it needed to go back I am 100% certain that with the profits they are making they 100% must get repairs down to 1 week like canon and fuji or have a loan system or both, especially for cameras within the warranty period.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[scott kirkpatrick]

3 hours ago, M11 for me said:

I had 6 newly released Leica cameras over the past 10 years. They all worked fully fine. At the moment I still own an M11 and a Q3. Both are great and cause no problem whatsoever. And they never did. 

When you say that a new Leica camera is a risk then this is not my experience.

Had to count on fingers and toes, but I think I have owned 11 digital Ms and 4 SLs of various vintages, starting with the M8s.  And, as a physicist/engineer/manager, I love to participate in beta tests to find the corner cases where things go wrong.  Even so,  I have occasionally made them fail, but never bricked one.

[Derbyshire Man]

8 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

My experience with messing with the M11-D without using the aid of Fotos is that it is hard to keep even one of its two buttons depressed for the 5 or 12 seconds that are required for most internal control setting changes.  If you look through the viewfinder to watch the time count up, you see it stop and return to zero and restart when you haven't pressed hard enough continually.  So pressing both buttons and keeping them pressed for 30 seconds is really a HARD reset.  I can see why it took three tries.

I found that too! The easiest way to do it is use two hands I found!

[pedaes]

14 minutes ago, pgh said:

personal negative experiences

This key element seems to be missing in what I am reading from the post you quote.

[Steadimann]

as a side note - my 50 Summilux 1.4 did not focus at infinity. Sent it to the dealer from which i bought, it took 2 weeks to get it back   by reading forums i was prepared to wait 6 months, but hey, i was surprised. My M11P is flawless, it did hand previously if i took a number of shots and turned off camera before waiting files to be written, now there is no such problem. Super happy, my M11M is incoming tomorrow, hoorray!

[J S H]

With regards to the topic of the original post, in the hope of providing some help - what firmware is installed on the camera?

[pgh]

34 minutes ago, pedaes said:

This key element seems to be missing in what I am reading from the post you quote.

It's not missing.

There must be some miscommunication because I've been at pains to describe it as my conclusions based explicitly on my own personal experience. 

[darylgo]

2 hours ago, username said:

..the best of this video being the fact that they returned his M10 to him in a faulty state, then told him he has to send it in again and wait some more months for them to this time actually install the proper firmware - and he then drove from GB to Wetzlar himself, and only then they fixed it right away.

100's of posts on the forum about multiple attempts for a proper repair.  Leica can be infuriating at times, but once they get it right there is nothing better. 

That he made lemonade out of lemons speaks loudly.   

Edited December 12, 2024 by darylgo

[pedaes]

13 minutes ago, pgh said:

It's not missing.

There must be some miscommunication because I've been at pains to describe it as my conclusions based explicitly on my own personal experience. 

Agree in relation to your conclusions - but as I said, it is missing in the post you 'quote' (the poster is clear, he doesn't own or use a Leica camera of any type).

Edited December 12, 2024 by pedaes

[3D-Kraft.com]

@D-Mavignier: My recommendation would be, to give it another chance and...

1. Make sure, the camera has got the latest firmware
2. Use a different SD card and make sure, it is freshly formatted by the camera

If you run into the same situation again, try to return it or queue up for repair (or travel to Wetzlar as well and insist on immediate repair like Matt Osborne 😠)

[username]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I can confidently say that you can buy a M body with peace and there's a very high chance it will be flawless. Leica is a small company with 1% camera market share after all, their service cannot be on par with Canon and their CPS or similar (not that I am by any chance justifying the horrid repair wait).

Just a friendly advice tho, while there is some truth in many of your statements, barking loudly in a forum full of die hard Leicaphiles is not always useful, fruitful nor effective. It is similar to convincing somebody that their favorite political candidate is in fact an idiot - completely useless and gravitating to flame wars.

It's comforting to hear you say I'll have "very high chance" it will be flawless, but to be honest I'm still a bit nervous about dropping 9K. 🙂
Especially if I'm not part of the lucky majority whose M11's work just fine - as it sounds exchanges and repairs are a long and tedious process with this brand right now, I may be left without a camera for months 💁‍♂️

I hear what you say in regards to flame wars, and my intention was not to offend people personally at all - I do think though it should be allowed to discuss issues, and to me it seems quite a few in here are not open to criticism at all, no matter how nicely it is being phrased. But perhaps @pgh put it into words that are easier to digest?

 

 

1 hour ago, pgh said:

And some of us can't. C'est la vie. In fact, rather absurdly, I can confidently say the opposite - out of three tries I've never gotten something that was ready to leave the shop! When someone spends close to 10k on a camera and it doesn't work, I'd imagine it's of relative use to find out they are not alone in said situation. The only thing I dislike more than Leica's luxury branding is the contingent of users who gaslight anyone who finds real flaws with them. Perhaps it's out of an ability to afford not caring about $10k problems, but that's a sort perspective very few in this world have. 

Indeed.

 

I sincearly have no intent of stepping on anybodies toes when I say that I get the impression that the people denying / downplaying the issues are probably the ones that can afford to, because they either have other M's - or because being without a reliably functioning camera for a while is not a big deal for them, as they don't really need it for work / projects etc.

 

 

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

So, no actual personal experience and 29 posts. Right?

This sounds like one needs to have a certain number of M's and a certain post count to even be answered by you.
Please feel free to ignore me 🙂

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[Derbyshire Man]

12 minutes ago, username said:

It's comforting to hear you say I'll have "very high chance" it will be flawless, but to be honest I'm still a bit nervous about dropping 9K. 🙂
Especially if I'm not part of the lucky majority whose M11's work just fine - as it sounds exchanges and repairs are a long and tedious process with this brand right now, I may be left without a camera for months 💁‍♂️

I hear what you say in regards to flame wars, and my intention was not to offend people personally at all - I do think though it should be allowed to discuss issues, and to me it seems quite a few in here are not open to criticism at all, no matter how nicely it is being phrased. But perhaps @pgh put it into words that are easier to digest?

 

 

Indeed.

 

I sincearly have no intent of stepping on anybodies toes when I say that I get the impression that the people denying / downplaying the issues are probably the ones that can afford to, because they either have other M's - or because being without a reliably functioning camera for a while is not a big deal for them, as they don't really need it for work / projects etc.

 

 

This sounds like one needs to have a certain number of M's and a certain post count to even be answered by you.
Please feel free to ignore me 🙂

Being without a 10K anything is a very very significant issue for me.

[LocalHero1953]

44 minutes ago, username said:

I sincearly have no intent of stepping on anybodies toes when I say that I get the impression that the people denying / downplaying the issues are probably the ones that can afford to, because they either have other M's - or because being without a reliably functioning camera for a while is not a big deal for them, as they don't really need it for work / projects etc.

A big conclusion to reach about those who disagree with you. 

I have frequently come to the opposite conclusion when reading threads about faulty cameras. A typical comment that "I don't expect that from a $10k camera" often appears to come from those who have the money, feel entitled to buy perfection, and are angry because they can't. But I've avoided posting such a conclusion (and deleted a post several times after drafting it in irritation) because it incorrectly assigns negative characteristics to a whole class of people.

Avoiding generalisations is a good strategy for life.