Use cases for SL next to your M camera?

[tom0511]

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I now use the M11 so seldom (because of the SL3, where I also own primes and Zoom +++) that I might sell the M11 but keep the M11M.

I do honer AF, IBIS and framing as well as the focal length flexibility of the SL-System more and more. But I wouldn't want to give up the M System, at least with 3 or 4 lenses in the 21-50 or 75mm range, 28 and 35 being the preferred focal length for M-shooting for my taste.

[Jeff S]

On 12/10/2024 at 4:23 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Things might change but I enjoy the SL3 more than the M. That wasn’t the case with the SL or SL2.

 

You probably explained elsewhere, but what factors are important to you for enjoying the SL3 vs SL2?

Conversely, have you experienced any negatives in the comparison, expressed here by others, e.g., worse battery life, worse EVF zoom magnification clarity, power switch complexity, or other issues?

I like my SL2 and struggle to see benefits of SL3 for me, except perhaps size/weight reduction. I can’t imagine print quality (at my modest sizes) would improve, but I haven’t used the SL3 at all, so maybe I’m missing something.

Jeff

[jayoco]

On 12/8/2024 at 4:03 PM, Almizilero said:

Have the exact same cameras. Usecases:

M11-P for everything that is fun, basically. Everyday carry, travel, personal projects.

SL2-S: Whenever a professional camera / AF is needed, e. g. portrait shoots, stage photography (love the high ISO files), use with a flash system, (or simply if certain people need to be impressed by a BIG F...ING CAMERA 😇)

Mind, the M11-P is so good that it has become my backup camera. And I'm confident that I could manage any given situation with it. But the SL2-S is just a very convenient work horse. I've been using it for almost 3 years now and it's the most reliable camera I've had so far with constantly amazing results. I feel this one will stay with me until it falls apart. Back in my Sony days, I've always been chasing the next level camera. Unthinkable to use the same one for 3 years. That's like 5 generations of camera in Sony-time! But the SL2-S is just satisfying. A joy to use and a joy to see the results.

I guess, just use it? Do whatever you do with the 5D3 with the SL2-S. If it doesn't click for you it's probably a bad buy 🤗

I regret selling my SL2-S.  I know of no other AF ILC with the same high ISO performance.  It's a great night machine.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

You probably explained elsewhere, but what factors are important to you for enjoying the SL3 vs SL2?

Conversely, have you experienced any negatives in the comparison, expressed here by others, e.g., worse battery life, worse EVF zoom magnification clarity, power switch complexity, or other issues?

I like my SL2 and struggle to see benefits of SL3 for me, except perhaps size/weight reduction. I can’t imagine print quality (at my modest sizes) would improve, but I haven’t used the SL3 at all, so maybe I’m missing something.

Jeff

It’s purely subjective but I love the balance of the SL3. By moving the grip slightly closer to the lens axis has made the camera less lop sided. Earlier SL bodies fell like they want to *pull to the left*. It just fell perfectly into my hand. I know others prefer the larger SL2.

I use the tilt screen all the time. There is a noticeable benefit to the improved sensor at higher ISO’s (less noise, more DR). The files are incredibly pliable. Basically it replaces both the SL2 and SL2-S in that respect.

The play button is on the correct side of the camera. Finally!

Little things made a huge difference. I’m incredibly sensitive to camera ergonomics. All cameras now make great files. Handling is everything to me. Over and above ultimate performance in any area.

Finally, it feels like a cousin to my X2D’s. If they’d give me my rear wheel ISO back it’d be nearly functionally identical. You trade resolution and DR for lens selection and a speed bump. But basically I can bounce back and forward between them without any thought. For me the SL3 is specifically for those spots that the Hasselblads don’t do.

As for your comments..

I have no real issues with battery life. You can top up with a cheap power bank in the field if you wish. I have plenty of batteries. I no longer shoot weddings. USBC charging for the win. I thought the SL2 was middle of the road for battery life and I feel the same about the SL3.

The EVF feels the same to me as the SL2. I think it’s one of the better units for magnified playback and now it’s usable with the play button in the correct spot. I rarely use this camera for AFC and never iAF, so I side step those issues.

I think the power switch is unnecessary complexity but I’m not bothered by it. I’d rather the old switch though. Or better, around the shutter button. I do like you can see it’s charging more easily. I wish there was an indicator that the camera was asleep rather than nothing at all.

So these things might be important to others but they don’t bother me.

There are things I really dislike.

The new dial is useless, to me. It could be useful if more functions were available. I want all my shooting functions available without having to lower the camera or change my grip. I’d really like to have my user profiles here. I have this set to ISO but the way it switches between auto and manual is just terrible.

They removed the customisation of the rear click dial. I HATE this downgrade as that’s where I want ISO. See my above comments about the X2D. My single biggest gripe with the SL3. I rarely change modes in the field

The camera desperately needs EFCS to eliminate shutter shock with longer lenses.

AFC is woeful. I figured that going in but after a year we still have animals in *beta*. I use other systems for action shooting but it’d be nice if they could make it at least passable.

So it isn’t close to perfect. But I like it anyway.

Gordon

[Jeff S]

32 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The EVF feels the same to me as the SL2. I think it’s one of the better units for magnified playback and now it’s usable with the play button in the correct spot. I rarely use this camera for AFC and never iAF, so I side step those issues.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive feedback, Gordon, appreciate it.

I don’t use magnified playback, but I thought others’ complaints were about focus magnification clarity in the EVF, which I use a lot (by turning the focus ring) when focusing manually with the SL2.  I could have misunderstood.  Do you see any issue in this regard?

I’ve thought about renting the X2D, but am reluctant to consider purchase because of the lack of a dealer network or repair access in the US.  Secondarily, I wish it had a joystick and live histogram, and maybe more lenses. Otherwise, I’d be comparing it against the SL3.

Jeff

Edited December 12, 2024 by Jeff S

[o2mpx]

I read the OP question with much interest. I have a M10-R and SL2 with duplicative lens ranges and ask the same question about use case. I’ve recently sold all L lenses to fund an APO35m, kept the SL2 body to use with m lenses; and will put that idea to the test in an upcoming trip. 
 

 

[davidmknoble]

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19 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I like my SL2 and struggle to see benefits of SL3 for me, except perhaps size/weight reduction. I can’t imagine print quality (at my modest sizes) would improve, but I haven’t used the SL3 at all, so maybe I’m missing something.

Jeff, after using the S system for so long, the M11 sensor was the first sensor that I felt had the range and color similar to the S system.  For me, the SL2 just didn’t have the dynamic range, which is why I bought the SL2-S.  The SL3 has that same sensor as the M11 and the dynamic range is just a solid step up from the SL2.  I do hate having 3 different SL bodies which means different hand grips and tripod brackets, but I can put the SL3 images next to the S images and feel good about it!

[davidmknoble]

14 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Secondarily, I wish it had a joystick

That is a big drawback, although the color output of the X2D is pretty nice.  I also do not like any of the new H lenses out (for landscape work) as the field curvature and focus shifting is some of the worst I’ve seen.  They are super sharp in the middle which is great for portrait work.  I use the older lenses and ironically, the 35-70 zoom is incredible for landscape work whereas the S 30-90 lens has some drawbacks.

[davidmknoble]

14 hours ago, Jeff S said:

thought others’ complaints were about focus magnification clarity in the EVF

I use the SL system (and SL3) with a lot of R glass which is manual focus.  I believe the EVF for close focus is great.  I do not use it zoomed in all the way but back a step or 2.  So, it may be that super zoom manual focusing is not calibrated well for the EVF pixel size, but I have no issues with it.

[padam]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:43 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It’s purely subjective but I love the balance of the SL3. By moving the grip slightly closer to the lens axis has made the camera less lop sided. Earlier SL bodies fell like they want to *pull to the left*. It just fell perfectly into my hand. I know others prefer the larger SL2.

I know exactly what you mean, Funnily enough, a half case solves this issue (in exchange for another 100 grams of extra weight...at least it won't get dented)

[PeterGA]

COlour and autofocus and IBIS sl2 B&W and Carry around M10M - photography? X2D

[Planetwide]

Today's used prices for a SL2, make it simply the best deal for an M camera. It works perfectly with M lenses via the M-L adapter, and it is a great deal, since the nearest M camera, price wise, is the venerable M246. Don't forget you get IBIS, viewfinder peaking, magnification, Focus support and 47mp with the SL series. 

Edited December 20, 2024 by Planetwide

[hdmesa]

On 12/12/2024 at 3:14 PM, Jeff S said:

...I don’t use magnified playback, but I thought others’ complaints were about focus magnification clarity in the EVF, which I use a lot (by turning the focus ring) when focusing manually with the SL2...

Compared to the SL2 and especially the SL2-S, the SL3 EVF resolution in magnification mode for M lenses is atrocious, inexcusably so – like 640x480 video on a 4K monitor. Even my Zf magnified resolution was better. Both SL2/S and SL3 magnify to the same percent magnification (1-click from max), but the clarity on the SL2-S is astounding – it looks like playback magnification from the SL3! That said, SL3 playback is noticeably sharper and more detailed than playback on the SL2-S. That makes it frustrating to me because I know what the SL3 EVF is capable of if Leica had allowed higher res magnification for live view.

Anyone telling you the SL3 magnification for M lenses (at the default zoom, not zoomed out) is good, they're probably using an APO lens. With non-APO and especially low contrast vintage lenses, getting exact focus on the SL3 in the EVF for M lenses is frustrating for me.

I sold the SL3 and went back to the SL2-S since I mainly use SL cameras for adapting M lenses. Such a joy to be back with the SL2-S.

Edited December 21, 2024 by hdmesa

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Compared to the SL2 and especially the SL2-S, the SL3 EVF resolution in magnification mode for M lenses is atrocious, inexcusably so – like 640x480 video on a 4K monitor. Even my Zf magnified resolution was better. Both SL2/S and SL3 magnify to the same percent magnification (1-click from max), but the clarity on the SL2-S is astounding – it looks like playback magnification from the SL3! That said, SL3 playback is noticeably sharper and more detailed than playback on the SL2-S. That makes it frustrating to me because I know what the SL3 EVF is capable of if Leica had allowed higher res magnification for live view.

Anyone telling you the SL3 magnification for M lenses (at the default zoom, not zoomed out) is good, they're probably using an APO lens. With non-APO and especially low contrast vintage lenses, getting exact focus on the SL3 in the EVF for M lenses is frustrating for me.

I sold the SL3 and went back to the SL2-S since I mainly use SL cameras for adapting M lenses. Such a joy to be back with the SL2-S.

I keep my M lenses on my M bodies, exclusively using SL lenses (primarily 24-90) on my SL2.  But I still use manual focus magnification occasionally. Would this also be worse on the SL3?

Jeff

[Markey]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Compared to the SL2 and especially the SL2-S, the SL3 EVF resolution in magnification mode for M lenses is atrocious, inexcusably so – like 640x480 video on a 4K monitor. Even my Zf magnified resolution was better. Both SL2/S and SL3 magnify to the same percent magnification (1-click from max), but the clarity on the SL2-S is astounding – it looks like playback magnification from the SL3! That said, SL3 playback is noticeably sharper and more detailed than playback on the SL2-S. That makes it frustrating to me because I know what the SL3 EVF is capable of if Leica had allowed higher res magnification for live view.

Anyone telling you the SL3 magnification for M lenses (at the default zoom, not zoomed out) is good, they're probably using an APO lens. With non-APO and especially low contrast vintage lenses, getting exact focus on the SL3 in the EVF for M lenses is frustrating for me.

I sold the SL3 and went back to the SL2-S since I mainly use SL cameras for adapting M lenses. Such a joy to be back with the SL2-S.

If you read enough posts on this forum you eventually come across some real world useful advice .

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I keep my M lenses on my M bodies, exclusively using SL lenses (primarily 24-90) on my SL2.  But I still use manual focus magnification occasionally. Would this also be worse on the SL3?

Jeff

With the higher contrast and higher resolving SL lenses like the 24-90, it probably would be fine. My Sigma 28-45 f/1.8 and 70-200 2.8 looked pretty good when magnified.

Probably the worst EVF experience I had with the SL3 was when using an AF lens in continuous AF, which causes the resolution to drop even when zoomed out. But a lot of folks aren't bothered by that based on some other feedback I've read here. I never used my SL2-S or previous SL2 in continuous AF to be able to compare.

Edited December 22, 2024 by hdmesa

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well the new firmware for the SL3 added the ability to change the function of the rear dial click. Yay!! My biggest single gripe gone. Thanks Leica.

Now for EFCS….

And a few comments on the EVF.

1. I don’t shoot a huge amount of moving stuff on the SL3. I have an A1 for that. So I don’t mind the lower resolution. If it were my *moving stuff* camera, I definitely would. And I believe it’s more the frame rate that drops rather than the resolution. Although both suffer.

2. I can focus most of my M lenses just fine with no magnification at all. I just use the EVF shimmer that my eyes have no problem picking up. Some don’t see it. I do. And with magnification set I’m absolutely OK. Your experience may vary. But since I have the set of SL APO’s the only M lenses I really want to use on the SL3 is my CV 50mm f1.0.

3. I am a left eyed shooter on the SL and right eyed on the M (via training myself). My left eyed is slightly better so the SL3 is more easily used, for me.

4. I have nearly zero interest in manual focus for SL lenses. I have a button ready to change the Af size etc. 

5. Playback in the EVF is vital to me. I use it in the field every session. MUCH more important than EVF resolution in AFC. I rate my SL3 higher than my A1 or A7R5 because of this.

So those are my biases. I don’t think others issues are made up or less important. Just if I don’t see it it’s because it’s either not my use case or not as important as other things.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

21 hours ago, hdmesa said:

With the higher contrast and higher resolving SL lenses like the 24-90, it probably would be fine. My Sigma 28-45 f/1.8 and 70-200 2.8 looked pretty good when magnified.

Probably the worst EVF experience I had with the SL3 was when using an AF lens in continuous AF, which causes the resolution to drop even when zoomed out. But a lot of folks aren't bothered by that based on some other feedback I've read here. I never used my SL2-S or previous SL2 in continuous AF to be able to compare.

Sl2 was the same. Don’t own a SL2-S. Lower resolution and faster sensor may help.

Gordon

[High_n_Dry]

Funny, I bet if you posted this on the M11 forum the majority would say they never shoot their SL anymore. 
I have a SL2, but only use the M11 and M10M now. I just love the analogue feel of the M and the compact system.

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[Leica Filmmatic]

SL3 is for everything that I shoot for others, the M is mine