Perfect old lens for the M11?

[lct]

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Which, to you, would be the perfect old lens for the M11 or other digital Ms?
I would have hesitated between Summicron 35/2 v1 and Summicron 50/2 v1 if i had not acquired a Summicron 50/2 DR that works even better on digital than film. It is a lens from the fifties (SOMNI 11918) that many colleagues here know better than i do but which has special virtues in digital.
The first virtue, so to speak, is a drawback since the lens is considered "incompatible" by Leica (M11 instruction manual page 34). In fact it is a lens that must be mounted and unmounted with care, preferably when the focus ring is set at the infinity position. Don't ask me why, it is possibly relative to the focus cams of the camera. Some of you have certainly better insights on this. All i know is mounting or unmountng is not a problem at the infinity position.
Otherwise the lens works normally and even better on digital because it doesn't need its native goggles to work in LV mode in both default and closeup positions. This way, especially with the Visoflex 2, the lens can be focused w/o optical accessory from 0.45m to infinity. There is nothing else to do than pulling the focus ring the usual way when passing from default MFD (1m) to closeups. Then framing and focusing can be achieved the same way from 0.45m to 1m as from 1m to infinity. Auto zoom and perspective control (LPC) work the same way on both focus ranges. Same for focus peaking.
Couple of snaps below in LPC mode at 10m and 0.5m focus distance with no cropping. M11's manual lens detection (50 f/2 11817).

M11, 50/2 DR, f/5.6, 10m:

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M11, 50/2 DR, f/5.6, 0.5m:

 

Edited December 2, 2024 by lct

[Danner]

King of Bokeh would not be a bad choice, IMHO.

[shirubadanieru]

I’d say a 35mm is the most versatile focal length on an M, so to me the perfect lens(es) would be:

• Summicron 35mm v1 or v4
• Summilux 35mm v2

 

• For 50mm Cron rigid or Lux v2

[lct]

Better old 35mm on M11?
I'd vote for Summicron 35/2 v1 or v4 or Summilux 35/1.4 v2 too.
The Summicron 35/2 v1 has more vignetting and is said to be softer at f/2 but this is not obvious on my copy. Snaps below at about 1m, Summicron 35/2 v1, coded as Summicron 35/2 v4.

M11, 35/2 v1, f/2:

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M11, 35/2 v1, f/2:

 

[lct]

Better old 28mm on M11?
Easy answer for me as i have only one 28mm old lens so far. Not a Leica lens as i found the pre-asph Elmarit's too big for my taste, so i chose a smaller lens, the M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for Minolta CLE. A tiny lens from the eighties with similar character as Mandler lenses from the same era. Less contrasty than Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1, it is easier to tweak in post due to shadows less dark than with the latter. It may have schneideritis spots though and its flange must be modded to bring up 28mm framelines. My copy is 6-bit coded as Elmarit 28/2.8 v4. Just a snap on M11 here:

M11, Rokkor 28/2.8, f/8:

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[DadDadDaddyo]

Heh. Second time today I've put in a mention of an old favorite:

If we're not speaking only of 35mm lenses, I'd definitely suggest a look at the 50mm (or 5cm) Elmar f/3.5.

Frequently, and in my opinion, unnecessarily, overlooked, this is as close as you can get to the lens that started it all. If the f/3.5 aperture concerns you, remember the vast reserve of ISO we enjoy today.

And if you want a lens that produces a classic "look," you've found it. It's uncanny. 

My own 5cm Elmar dates from 1936. 1936, for heavens sake!

I can't even recall exactly when or where I got it. It's mechanically smooth, optically sharp, produces decent contrast, and with an OEM Leica adapter, mounts with perfect calibration on my M11M (and M11 also, but really, it shines on the M11M).

The images it produces make you feel as if you've gone back in time. Simply amazing.

Edited December 4, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo
typo

[graphlex]

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75mm Summilux, of course.

[lexffm]

I dug out the old Summicron 50 riged (11818R) and took a few pictures on the M11M. Only minimally edited...

Part of the old town at Bethmannstrasse in Frankfurt, Germany

M 11 Monochrom with Summicron-M 1:2 /50 V2 (riged) from the year of my birthday (1968), ISO 125, f2.8, 1/350

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[lexffm]

And the same lens as above with M 11-P

M 11-P with Summicron-M 1:2 /50 V2 (riged) from the year of my birthday (1968), ISO 250, f5.6, 1/200

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[lct]

Summicron 50/2 "rigid" 11818 R
(Leitz catalog 1961)

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[aficionados]

I have summilux 50/1.4 v2, which I really like how it renders on m11.

The only complaint is that it’s silver but my m11 is black.

[lct]

Better old 21mm on M11?
I'd vote for Super-Angulon 21/3.4 or Biogon 21/4.5.
Both exhibit red edges on M240 but not on the M11. Light metering isn't a problem on the M11 either. Both lenses can be focused in LV mode down to MFD, i.e. 0.4m for S-A or 0.5m for Biogon. Snaps below with both lenses coded as Elmarit 21/2.8.

M11, S-A 21/3.4, f/8:

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M11, ZM 21/4.5, f/8:

[JimmyCheng]

I find the rigid's bokeh to be a bit busy and not as pleasant as v4/v5. But build/handling wise, it's superb. I would probably vote for the 1.2 noctilux (original or re-issue if that counts)
I think the 35 v1 is a fantastic choice for m11, given its rendering and build/handling. But my favorite has to be the v4. It's lightweight, and so easy to tag along with. 

[aficionados]

46 minutes ago, JimmyCheng said:

I find the rigid's bokeh to be a bit busy and not as pleasant as v4/v5. But build/handling wise, it's superb. I would probably vote for the 1.2 noctilux (original or re-issue if that counts)
I think the 35 v1 is a fantastic choice for m11, given its rendering and build/handling. But my favorite has to be the v4. It's lightweight, and so easy to tag along with. 

I have summicron 35 v1 and v4 and prefer v1

I also have noctilux 1.2 re-issue and summilux 50 v2, I prefer summilux

 

[JimmyCheng]

4 minutes ago, aficionados said:

I have summicron 35 v1 and v4 and prefer v1

I also have noctilux 1.2 re-issue and summilux 50 v2, I prefer summilux

 

mind you share the reason why? I'm curious to know.

[aficionados]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCheng said:

mind you share the reason why? I'm curious to know.

As for summicron 35 I found v1 has better contrast than v4, it might be just my personal preference but I think v4 is too flat with kind of beefed up shadow.

For 50’s I would like to elaborate what I said. I like both performance and rendering but I found summilux v2 has pleasant glow on 1.4 better than Noctilux at 1.2. Noctilux doesn’t any glowing dreamy feeling starting 1.4 anyway. Besides, summilux v2 is less bulky even though noctilux is not that big

[JimmyCheng]

1 hour ago, aficionados said:

As for summicron 35 I found v1 has better contrast than v4, it might be just my personal preference but I think v4 is too flat with kind of beefed up shadow.

For 50’s I would like to elaborate what I said. I like both performance and rendering but I found summilux v2 has pleasant glow on 1.4 better than Noctilux at 1.2. Noctilux doesn’t any glowing dreamy feeling starting 1.4 anyway. Besides, summilux v2 is less bulky even though noctilux is not that big

Interesting. I found the v1 a bit less contrasty than the v4, hence better for black & white in my book. But I found v4 to give a more 3d pop due to that added contrast, not sure why it is flatter due to higher contrast.

OK it makes sense if you love the dreamy glow. I hate glows hence no love for any pre-asph summilux. That's just personal preference of course, many ppl love the glow. I found the 1.2 noctilux just the right size to carry, otherwise I would go for the E58 F1.0 Noctilux, which is my favorite in terms of rendering. The following photo is shot on m10p, it's like a painting.

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Edited December 7, 2024 by JimmyCheng
added photo illustration

[pgk]

On 12/2/2024 at 3:40 PM, lct said:

Which, to you, would be the perfect old lens for the M11 or other digital Ms?

For me there is on 'perfect' lens. By far my most used is the 35mm pre-FLE Summilux aspheric but its not 'perfect'. I have a 50/1.4 asph. which is extrememly good optically but rarely gets used. The 21 SEM is a stunning little lens but too wide for many situatons. But they are not 'old' and whilst I've owned most 35/50 Leica made M lenses I find the modern lenses more satisfying.  I no longer have it but the pre-asheric 35mm Summilux probably sits there as a true 'classic' and is certainly a lens I enjoyed owning and using even if I now use and enjoy the pre-FLE. So a rambling post to say that I don't know😉.

[lct]

Perfect or better old 90? I'd vote for the bulky Summicron 90/2 v2 but i don't have my copy at hand and the photos i took with it are private so why not 90/2 v3? OK for portraits but otherwise the lens has too much color fringing for my taste. So, Elmarit 90/2.8? I would have said yes for v2 and it is still my better candidate among slower than f/2 90mm lenses, together with the current Summarit 90/2.4. However, i have discovered recently a LTM Elmarit 90/2.8 v1 that works better than i would have expected on the M11. Matches well other old favorites of mine, Summicron 35/2 v1, 50/2 v1, or 50/2 DR. Just a snap on M11 below.

M11, Elmarit 90/2.8 v1, f/8:

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Edited December 7, 2024 by lct

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DadDadDaddyo]

I find a 90mm is a wonderful focal length for an "exploring lens," by which I mean, one to accompany me on a walk, noticing things. 

I've posted about this before, but, for me, a wide angle field of view (by which I mean, maybe, 'wider than 'wide-normal') is a specialized lens to apply to specific circumstances. You have to want to have all that stuff in the frame and be willing to incorporate it all into the image. In fact, often, incorporating it all often seems to become the point of the photograph.

The 90mm lets me pick something out and make a study of it. It's good for recording something from a scene you want to remember: the writer's typewriter, the musician's violin, the mechanic's wrenches. 

It's also a nice focal length for a certain type of landscape: not the sweeping wide vista, but maybe selected elements within it: a couple of the sailboats resting at their moorings across the harbor, some of the sheep on the slope, the billboard above the folks waiting at the bus stop.

In other words, it seems to match the perceptional field of view when you notice something in a view and then look at it, from where you are. 

Or, as in the flower photos above, picking something and isolating it, somewhat close up but not yet macro. 

I've got the ancient 90mm Elmar, the Elmarit, and of course, the wonderful Macro-Elmar-M (which is tucked in a pocket regardless of what lens I've got on the camera at the start of the walk).

It's funny. On a zoom, a field of view equivalent to 90mm never quite felt long enough at the long end. But as a prime, it often feels just right