Why I love and hate the Leica M

[Altair]

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Be forewarned....this just probably the most useless post you will read this year, and perhaps stretching to the next. Nothing but the ramblings of someone new to M coming from an X2D and Z9 world. I highly recommend you spend your time more constructively somewhere else.

 

With that warning out of the way, I wanted to share my thoughts as a hobbyist who has started taking his photography more seriousely for the last year and exactly one week with an M.

 

I love the idea of an M. Just the right size, build quality is Swiss watches standard, and the pictures, when perfectly framed and just focus, are unmatched. Even compared to a X2D, there is something magical of what an M with the right lens can do. 

 

For me, what the Leica experience is at its very heart, is being able to walk around with a fairly manageable, enjoyable to see/feel/operate package with the capability of producing some of the most strikingly beautiful images possible. The insistence of Leica to adhere to the legacy of what M has always been adds to the charm of the camera. I liken the last bit to owning and enjoying a Fine fountain pen as compared to a commercial roller ball or a Vacheron Constantin wrist watch compared to a quartz Seiko watch. The Seiko and roller ball pen actually provide more accurate results far more consistently and are naturally far more affordable. But the beuty of the results and certainly the experience of ownership is a different world all together. Manually winding a fine watch is it's own pleasure compared to a set and forget quartz watch, so is manually focusing a range finder compared to auto everything Japanese alternatives.

 

As much as I appreciate the M11, and i certainly am glad I finally took the leap, I really do wish several key changes are done for the next iteration. Mainly a tilt screen ( doesn't ruin the legacy of M, done use it if you prefer contortionist photography) and I do wish Leica are investing in focus assurance tech that would somehow enable us to ensure a higher successfully shot ratio. My only problem with the M11 compared to my other cameras is that focusing takes a good amount of mental thought per shot, which is less time focusing on framing and composition. 

With that in mind, the X2D is the best camera in the world today. The lenses, especially the 55v and 90v, absolutely have the magic look, not quite as much as the best Leica lenses have but up there, and the added value of a tilt screen and autofocus make it a camera i can depend on when it matters. I used it for one day of street photography in London a few days back and used the M11 the day after. Fact of the matter is, the Hassleblad gave me the results, the Leica produced only one truly great image compared to over 30 with the X2D.

As it stands, the Hassleblad is the right tool for me produce results, the Leica is a luxury, which is great, but it can be so much more.

I really hope the M12 takes the lagacy of M and makes for a truly dependable modern camera that can take full advantage of legacy lenses. Just a tilt screen and the real challenge, groundbreaking focus peaking technology.

Sorry for the long winded post, I obviously feel strongly about this. To clarify, I do love my M and enjoy it tremendously and will continue to practice with and without the visoflex while I wait for the groundbreaking M12 

[Knorp]

You'll get the hang of your M, you just need more practice ... really !

[setuporg]

tilt what?

[LocalHero1953]

As well as adding a tilt screen, Leica should ditch the rangefinder, add autofocus and image stabilisation, and replace those old school manual dials and rings with rocker switches, finally allowing full Program Mode P&S. Raw images are too complicated for today's generation of ageing M owners, so go full-fat Das Wesentliche with JPG only and Leica Looks.

There. Done it.

[pedaes]

2 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Done it.

You certainly have!

[jaapv]

Really - you forgot the most essential feature that the M lacks - an e-sim  to connect to Tik Tok and publish your snaps and obviously videos that it should be able to take at the push of a button.  
oh-and make it flat and rectangular and give it three built-in small lenses. 

[DigitalHeMan]

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4 hours ago, Altair said:

I do wish Leica are investing in focus assurance tech that would somehow enable us to ensure a higher successfully shot ratio.

May I offer some advice? Based upon your earlier posts here and on Reddit I know you're currently shooting with your Noctilux 50mm, and you're enjoying using it wide open. A fine lens certainly. But maybe to help you learn the rangefinder focus experience, start off by not shooting wide open. Try at f/2.8 until you're getting 90%+ in focus, then go to f/2 until you've achieved 90%=, f/1.4, and finally f/0.95. Practice will certainly make perfect in this case. Rangefinder focusing is a fast and accurate way of using a camera. once you've got the hang of it.....

[DigitalHeMan]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

oh-and make it flat and rectangular and give it three built-in small lenses. 

Once they've achieved all that, it may as well make phone calls as well 

[3D-Kraft.com]

@Altair: What you describe, can be found as Sony A7CR.

Leica M stands for maximum self-flagellation, with which you can still produce a presentable photo every now and then. Not more and not less.

[Ko.Fe.]

9 minutes ago, DigitalHeMan said:

May I offer some advice? Based upon your earlier posts here and on Reddit I know you're currently shooting with your Noctilux 50mm, and you're enjoying using it wide open. A fine lens certainly. But maybe to help you learn the rangefinder focus experience, start off by not shooting wide open. Try at f/2.8 until you're getting 90%+ in focus, then go to f/2 until you've achieved 90%=, f/1.4, and finally f/0.95. Practice will certainly make perfect in this case. Rangefinder focusing is a fast and accurate way of using a camera. once you've got the hang of it.....

Noctilux 50mm gives one of the best bokeh even with f5.6. Lens, camera operator just needs to know how to get bokeh with f5.6.

As for WO, it is not about practice, using RF an so on, but understanding DOF.

I used dof master website to become person who knows what he is doing

[benqui]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Altair:

Be forewarned....this just probably the most useless post you will read this year, and perhaps stretching to the next. Nothing but the ramblings of someone new to M coming from an X2D and Z9 world. I highly recommend you spend your time more constructively somewhere else.

 

With that warning out of the way, I wanted to share my thoughts as a hobbyist who has started taking his photography more seriousely for the last year and exactly one week with an M.

 

I love the idea of an M. Just the right size, build quality is Swiss watches standard, and the pictures, when perfectly framed and just focus, are unmatched. Even compared to a X2D, there is something magical of what an M with the right lens can do. 

 

For me, what the Leica experience is at its very heart, is being able to walk around with a fairly manageable, enjoyable to see/feel/operate package with the capability of producing some of the most strikingly beautiful images possible. The insistence of Leica to adhere to the legacy of what M has always been adds to the charm of the camera. I liken the last bit to owning and enjoying a Fine fountain pen as compared to a commercial roller ball or a Vacheron Constantin wrist watch compared to a quartz Seiko watch. The Seiko and roller ball pen actually provide more accurate results far more consistently and are naturally far more affordable. But the beuty of the results and certainly the experience of ownership is a different world all together. Manually winding a fine watch is it's own pleasure compared to a set and forget quartz watch, so is manually focusing a range finder compared to auto everything Japanese alternatives.

 

As much as I appreciate the M11, and i certainly am glad I finally took the leap, I really do wish several key changes are done for the next iteration. Mainly a tilt screen ( doesn't ruin the legacy of M, done use it if you prefer contortionist photography) and I do wish Leica are investing in focus assurance tech that would somehow enable us to ensure a higher successfully shot ratio. My only problem with the M11 compared to my other cameras is that focusing takes a good amount of mental thought per shot, which is less time focusing on framing and composition. 

With that in mind, the X2D is the best camera in the world today. The lenses, especially the 55v and 90v, absolutely have the magic look, not quite as much as the best Leica lenses have but up there, and the added value of a tilt screen and autofocus make it a camera i can depend on when it matters. I used it for one day of street photography in London a few days back and used the M11 the day after. Fact of the matter is, the Hassleblad gave me the results, the Leica produced only one truly great image compared to over 30 with the X2D.

As it stands, the Hassleblad is the right tool for me produce results, the Leica is a luxury, which is great, but it can be so much more.

I really hope the M12 takes the lagacy of M and makes for a truly dependable modern camera that can take full advantage of legacy lenses. Just a tilt screen and the real challenge, groundbreaking focus peaking technology.

Sorry for the long winded post, I obviously feel strongly about this. To clarify, I do love my M and enjoy it tremendously and will continue to practice with and without the visoflex while I wait for the groundbreaking M12 

Many photographers (me too) had the same problems at the beginning with an M camera. It takes some time to become experienced with manual focusing. But especially in street photography you should also try zone focussing to get better results. But if you have more practice, you will love the M. I also use the X2D a lot (also with M lenses), but the M is still something special I will not miss.

[jaapv]

It is diametricaly wrong advice to advocate zone misfocus (or EVF) to someone who is learning to use a rangefinder. He/she will remain a beginner forever. The way to learn is to accept an initially low but steadily increasing success rate. It is like advising a beginner who struggles with AF settings to switch it off. 
Zone focus is only for experienced photographers who know when -and how- to use it.

[Ko.Fe.]

29 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

As well as adding a tilt screen, Leica should ditch the rangefinder, add autofocus and image stabilisation, and replace those old school manual dials and rings with rocker switches, finally allowing full Program Mode P&S. Raw images are too complicated for today's generation of ageing M owners, so go full-fat Das Wesentliche with JPG only and Leica Looks.

There. Done it.

Here is nothing wrong to have focus picking on the screen in addition to RF.

Actually, it will increase sales. Where are people who can't use RF focusing at all. I don't knw why but I have seen it by myself.

It is not about explaining/understanding/practicing, but they can't do it, period. No idea if it is mental or just how individual's brain process images. 

So those  who wants Leica status, feel and so on and want to use Leica lenses (good lenses indeed) will have more chances to use it on M, which has screen already.

As for tiltable screen been proclaimed as modern technology in OP...

Tilt screen is outdated technology, been replaced by fully articulated screen.

Why?

Because some of us, screen is never involved in actual shooting if OVF/EVF is present. We are turning this gizmo towards to camera body and it makes camera more elegant, robust and practical.  

So, articulating screen will give even more sales than tilting one.     

[FrozenInTime]

Why not also add Lidar and a clip on cine style focus motor.

Split the M line, imagine new things, add an EVF and tilt-flip screen etc., but make sure to leave the classic optical M rangefinder model free of bloat.

[benqui]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

It is diametricaly wrong advice to advocate zone misfocus (or EVF) to someone who is learning to use a rangefinder. He/she will remain a beginner forever. The way to learn is to accept an initially low but steadily increasing success rate. It is like advising a beginner who struggles with AF settings to switch it off. 
Zone focus is only for experienced photographers who know when -and how- to use it.

From the technical and educational aspect you are right, but it also helps to prevent frustrating results in street photography which is for sure helpful in order to avoid that a newcomer is selling his camera because of frustration

[Steadimann]

this is funny  

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Here is nothing wrong to have focus picking on the screen in addition to RF.

Actually, it will increase sales. Where are people who can't use RF focusing at all. I don't knw why but I have seen it by myself.

It is not about explaining/understanding/practicing, but they can't do it, period. No idea if it is mental or just how individual's brain process images. 

So those  who wants Leica status, feel and so on and want to use Leica lenses (good lenses indeed) will have more chances to use it on M, which has screen already.

As for tiltable screen been proclaimed as modern technology in OP...

Tilt screen is outdated technology, been replaced by fully articulated screen.

Why?

Because some of us, screen is never involved in actual shooting if OVF/EVF is present. We are turning this gizmo towards to camera body and it makes camera more elegant, robust and practical.  

So, articulating screen will give even more sales than tilting one.     

 Nearly al lenses work perfectly well on an SLseries and the rest adequately good. Buy a screwdriver instead of a hammer because a screwdriver has more status? 
Far better to get a trophy wife/husband to carry your mundane camera.  

[evikne]

When I bought my first Leica M, I wanted to learn how to focus quickly and efficiently. Instead of beating around the bush, I bought a Noctilux f/1 and used it almost exclusively for a whole year, wide open. I learned a lot from that.

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, benqui said:

From the technical and educational aspect you are right, but it also helps to prevent frustrating results in street photography which is for sure helpful in order to avoid that a newcomer is selling his camera because of frustration

All of us travelled the road and those that fell by the wayside would most likely have done so anyway. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Here is nothing wrong to have focus picking on the screen in addition to RF.

Actually, it will increase sales. Where are people who can't use RF focusing at all. I don't knw why but I have seen it by myself.

It is not about explaining/understanding/practicing, but they can't do it, period. No idea if it is mental or just how individual's brain process images. 

So those  who wants Leica status, feel and so on and want to use Leica lenses (good lenses indeed) will have more chances to use it on M, which has screen already.

As for tiltable screen been proclaimed as modern technology in OP...

Tilt screen is outdated technology, been replaced by fully articulated screen.

Why?

Because some of us, screen is never involved in actual shooting if OVF/EVF is present. We are turning this gizmo towards to camera body and it makes camera more elegant, robust and practical.  

So, articulating screen will give even more sales than tilting one.     

More likely because an articulated screen is a must for the vlogger market.