Checking your experiences before committing to buying the modern reissue Leica M6

[F456]

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I love Leica M photography and have several M film bodies, some bought new and some used — with 24 + v/f, 35, 50 & 90mm lenses. I say this first so that the following little bad experience from a while ago doesn't give the impression I am biased against the brand: I'm not, but I am being cautious at present.

The last new M cameras I bought were two 35mm MPs with the standard 0.72x finder, nice black paint versions, standard issue, not à la carte.  Delivery was in 2019, a month or so before the world was alerted to the likelihood of a pandemic. So the pandemic had nothing to do with the following issue, which was simply that both bodies straight out of their boxes had misaligned rangefinders. Separately the leatherette had not been applied well and was dog-eared in the corners. The leatherette was neatly replaced to my complete satisfaction free of charge at the factory with a new type that apparently is more suitable and looks like a reversion to something older, but the rangefinder problems limped on for some time owing to poor communication between dealer, factory and me, and in the end I sold those two cameras (not the older Ms that I already had) as I just lost faith in the protracted process and misinformation.

Anyway I am keen to try again. Much though I love my excellent unmetered black M4 and silver M3 and the results I get using them with a Sekonic handheld meter, there are times when I like to work faster to get the shot and an onboard meter would be  just the job, which is why I ordered the MPs in the first place. So to get to the point, I'm keen to hear now how users of the latest, born again M6 have found their camera if bought brand new.  Mostly excellent? Any major or minor quibbles or comments on the quality of assembly, reliability and focusing calibration? For me if those things are right I know the M cameras are superb fast-handling machines in almost any lighting condition. And I would love to have my faith in bought new products restored. My aim would be to buy one body this time.

(For various reasons not connected with this post I only use film Leica M-series bodies, not digital.)

 

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by F456

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[a.noctilux]

Go for it.

This might be the only time for new M.

As human made "thing", something can be " not up to one's expectation".

I trust in Leica and the people behind the brand.

Please notice I have any "link" to Leica affair, only as happy (more or less) long time... user.

[Anbaric]

The main thing I recall coming up several times was that some users found they were getting lines of scratches on their negatives, which was attributed to a 'bad batch' of pressure plates. No idea how common this is (or was), but I would check the negs carefully from the first few rolls if I bought one.

[LocalHero1953]

I have the MP black paint, bought new a couple of years ago, and have no complaints. But I have heard of no evidence to suggest that the MP and M6 are anything other than siblings under the skin, made in the same way to the same standards. So your previous experience with the MP is as relevant/irrelevant to the M6 as to another MP.

Edited November 30, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, F456 said:

I love Leica M photography and have several M film bodies

New film M can last for many years/decades untill film is no more available.

So if something goes wrong, Leica or other person can repair.

Well as M lover the fear of "something wrong" with new M6 is kind of overthinking.

I understand but so many happy M users never complain.

[Mute-on]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have the MP black paint, bought new a couple of years ago, and have no complaints. But I have heard of no evidence to suggest that the MP and M6 are anything other than siblings under the skin, made in the same way to the same standards. So your previous experience with the MP is as relevant/irrelevant to the M6 as to another MP.

Well put.

I would also add that my personal impression, rightly or wrongly, is that the early MPs (serial numbers 2xxxxxx and 3xxxxxx) are a better quality of manufacture proposition than current, post-digital, production. Unfortunately these are now 20 years old, so time and wear will have taken a toll.

Just buy whichever model of new film M you prefer. Life is too short. Enjoy!

[F456]

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Thank you all for your replies. 

If I buy I will do the pressure plate/ negatives check mentioned by Anbaric.

There will always be some element of luck in a new purchase of anything but I suppose I was wondering also if maybe the standard of assembly and then post-assembly checking of the film bodies has possibly suffered a little now that digital bodies must occupy far more of the technicians' (or even just one technician's) time.  Mute-on's post suggests this could be so. As he says, 'life is too short' but with tongue in cheek I'd have to say that was precisely my feeling when I had to return both those new bodies  for adjustment and reskinning after already waiting over a year since ordering them to begin with! Anyway, that is all past — I just  need to reconsider and then decide.

The fact that both my new MPs five years ago were not properly adjusted for focus and yet had the quality control cards signed led me to lose faith as you can imagine. On the other hand I believe that the meters in the new M6 are more robust ( or is it that they are the same as in the MP and those are also more robust than what was in the original M6 and M6TTL models?) and importantly, as has been said in your replies, servicing is likely to be available for longer than with any more electronics-dependent model. 

Well, it's my problem now to make a decision! If any of you has actually bought the new M6 please do let me know if it's everything you hoped for and how it feels and handles compared with the earlier M6 and the M6TTL. This new M6 is the model I would have gone for in 2019 had it been released to the market back then. 

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have the MP black paint, bought new a couple of years ago, and have no complaints. But I have heard of no evidence to suggest that the MP and M6 are anything other than siblings under the skin, made in the same way to the same standards. So your previous experience with the MP is as relevant/irrelevant to the M6 as to another MP.

 

[LocalHero1953]

Again, I have heard nothing to suggest that the M6 meter is different from the MP meter, but it is certainly a redesigned/modernised meter compared to the one in the original M6. 

Edited November 30, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[TomB_tx]

I haven't used Leica for film camera repairs since the 1980s. The good private techs do a more reliable job.

[Anbaric]

54 minutes ago, F456 said:

On the other hand I believe that the meters in the new M6 are more robust ( or is it that they are the same as in the MP and those are also more robust than what was in the original M6 and M6TTL models?) and importantly, as has been said in your replies, servicing is likely to be available for longer than with any more electronics-dependent model.

I don't know about robust (most M6 meters still seem to be working fine decades later), but Leica have run of meter circuit boards for both the M6 Classic and M6-TTL. Third party technicians, Amsterdam Camera Repair, have recently developed a replacement (and supposedly improved) board for the M6 Classic, which will also be supplied to other repairers. Leica have made noises about providing a service that will retrofit the M6 Classic and M6-TTL with the meter from the M6 Reissue, but this has yet to materialise (it's not a simple drop-in replacement). Both the older variants are mechanically serviceable, though if the circuit board dies in the TTL I believe it takes all flash sync with it, not just TTL metering, and I recently noticed that Cameraworks-UK no longer support the TTL (they and several others also no longer support the M5 or the M7, but Leica still service the latter, presumably until they use up all the circuit boards).

[ktmrider2]

Purchased a new MP in Feb, 2024 and it has no issues that I know of.  I have been using Leica M cameras continuously since 1975 and bought a new MP for the simple reason that I had not purchased a new film camera since 1995 (M6TTL).  Would I buy it again or should I have gone digital?

Yes, I would buy it again except my favorite M model of all time is the M2.  The viewfinder of the M2 simply cannot be beat IMHO.  I have owned lots of meterless bodies as well as M5 and M6 and M6TTL so the meter is convient but I could live without (almost went MA).

Again, no problem with my new MP except soft black paint finish but I knew that when I purchased it.  And it is the prettiest of the finishes in my opinion.

Edited December 1, 2024 by ktmrider2

[hansvons]

14 hours ago, F456 said:

For me if those things are right I know the M cameras are superb fast-handling machines in almost any lighting condition. And I would love to have my faith in bought new products restored. My aim would be to buy one body this time.

What you were experiencing was the concerted action of Leica‘s QC and a sub-par interested dealer. Leicas Ms are manually put together and that makes them susceptible for batch-wide deficiencies, especially in times when skilled workers are a dwindling species and demand for their cameras sky-rockets.

This situation positions dealers in a delicate situation. Many solve such issues with their daily CanonNikonSony routine by just swapping the faulty product for a working one (many items will see the bin this way). That doesn’t work with Leica.

In order to deal with issues like yours satisfactory, the dealer has to have a special relationship with Leica, personal sources at the mothership, and a extensive network in the Leicaverse. The regular photography shop does not have that. They have what you have. An email, a phone number and product number. That is a recipe for disappointed Leica customers.

I‘d either buy the 2022 M6 at a regular Leica shop or look out for a dealer like this one in the EU or that one in the US. I can’t comment on the latter one other that what you read is highly positive. On the first one I have first-hand experience and can say that this is an owner-ran shop (Alexander Görlitz) who understands himself primarily as a problem solver.

But regardless of how you plan to buy your new M6, go for it. As you said, life is too short!

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by hansvons

[trisberg]

On 11/30/2024 at 5:31 PM, F456 said:

Well, it's my problem now to make a decision! If any of you has actually bought the new M6 please do let me know if it's everything you hoped for and how it feels and handles compared with the earlier M6 and the M6TTL.

I bought a new M6 a little over a year ago and it has been everything I was hoping for. It handles the same as the older classic M6 cameras, just a tad heavier due to the brass top plate. I think the finder is nicer with no focus patch flare. Plus, I like it being new and hopefully avoid having to send it for a CLA anytime soon. I would not hesitate buying one of the new MP/MA/M6 cameras.

-Thomas

 

[F456]

On 11/30/2024 at 10:36 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

Again, I have heard nothing to suggest that the M6 meter is different from the MP meter, but it is certainly a redesigned/modernised meter compared to the one in the original M6. 

That is a welcome and positive piece of information for future consideration of a purchase. Thank you!

[F456]

On 11/30/2024 at 11:26 PM, TomB_tx said:

I haven't used Leica for film camera repairs since the 1980s. The good private techs do a more reliable job.

That is my experience and essentially what prompted this thread. Cameraworks UK have been very good — and informative also. They brought my 1950s M3 and 1970s M4 right up to scratch; they are a real pleasure to work with (cameras and repairers).

[F456]

"I‘d either buy the 2022 M6 at a regular Leica shop or look out for a dealer like this one in the EU or that one in the US. I can’t comment on the latter one other that what you read is highly positive. On the first one I have first-hand experience and can say that this is an owner-ran shop (Alexander Görlitz) who understands himself primarily as a problem solver."

Wise advice. As a matter of fact I did buy from a first class dealer with whom I had happy dealings since the early 1990s — Richard Caplan in London SW1. Unfortunately the shop had to close round about when the pandemic started; I think for reasons of Richard's health. So when I was next able to visit a shop I went to one of the new Leica stores in London and while they were helpful and prompt in sending the faulty cameras back to Wetzlar some miscommunication at either the British end or the factory gave rise to misinterpretation of what was faulty and to extra sendings between the two countries. And still the faults were not corrected.  Anyway this is past history and I have moved forward.

For the record, I decided to take some time to mull over how I should best like to proceed and have decided and acted on the following course.

Already having a few M bodies for film and some other manufacturers' equipment for digital, I see my Leica use being for the reflective and less hurried style, even with people and candids (e.g. urban  / 'street'). Looking back over three decades of slides, colour negative and b&w pictures, I see that the bulk of the keepers in all three mediums were shot using an incident meter.  When I shot with in-camera metering it was mostly for fast action, fill flash, sport etc with a Nikon AF camera set to matrix metering. In fact I had forgotten that even with the M6 that I used for some years I 'upgraded' to using incident metering after the first few months and probably had no battery cells in the camera for most of its time with me.

So, tempted though I have been this year to get a new M6, I have ended up going the other way, selling some lenses and consolidating my kit round my existing mainly meterless bodies.  By having less I know I'll actually shoot more and though incident metering can be a pain in fast changing light I shall feel proud of the shots that go well and know that the camera was only doing exactly what I asked it to do. 

Thank you for your mention of Alexander Görlitz. In Britain I have also heard very good things of the Leica Manchester shop; they are independent, I am told, and some dealings recently with them over a lens were a pleasant experience.

When I get a chance to learn how to post pictures to the LU Forum I hope to put up a few of the black and whites I shot early this summer on Ilford FP4 plus, using a 1974 Wetzlar black chrome M4 with 35/2 Canadian v4 Summicron and 90/2 Canadian v3 Summicron  i.e. 1980s Mandler lenses.

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by F456
Minor corrections