Goodbye, M11!

[Markey]

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1 hour ago, Derbyshire Man said:

It probably is a reasonable time to buy, there's still noise about freezing (with the latest firmware that is at worst a rare as hens teeth issue) and this will still be weighing on prices. Not as much as a new model however! If you want an M11 for the *differences from the M10* or because you haven't got one and would like one it would seem a reasonable time to buy. With MBP and others in the UK if you buy just before a time when you can test extensively it can always go back if it is problematic even with the latest firmware.

That was my thinking .

Now I need to forget what I saw 

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[Derbyshire Man]

25 minutes ago, Markey said:

That was my thinking .

Now I need to forget what I saw 

Really sorry about that!

[DadDadDaddyo]

Churn is real, and churn continues. 

I just made the decision to sell off my Fujifilm Medium Format gear, for the second time!

Reason? To free up bucks for the completion of the body-off restoration of a 50-year-old automobile that I've owned for thirty of those years. 

And, I've got Leicas. 

It's so nice to use a camera that feels like a camera, not a toaster oven with a lens!

[Steadimann]

I should create a new thread: Hello M11M   I love my M11P so much that I decided to get M11M in addition to it and 50 1.2 reissue  

[Strmbrg]

I have no own experience with the M11-series.
The complex shutter-movement for the complex exposure-measurement is something I suppose is too complicated for something unnecessary, and made just because it could be made.
The M10-R does the exposure very well by a much less complex method.

The more I get involved in - and focused at - creating images, the less I bother about the gear.

My first and only Leica-M ever is the M10-R, which I bought pre-owned. 

[didier]

On 12/6/2024 at 8:02 PM, RF’sDelight said:

On 12/6/2024 at 5:12 PM, pgh said:

If I could design a camera it would be a monochrome - D version.

+1 👌

+1 as well  

and with a ‘traditional’ meter / shutter (ie à la M10 not M11, not always open)

Edited December 7, 2024 by didier

[DadDadDaddyo]

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Been shooting with Leicas since '68.

Gotta say. The M11 shutter and its action/sound/whatever?

It doesn't bug me. 

[evikne]

On 12/6/2024 at 5:12 PM, pgh said:

If I could design a camera it would be a monochrome - D version.

 

35 minutes ago, didier said:

+1 as well  

and with a ‘traditional’ meter / shutter (ie à la M10 not M11, not always open)

I would have bought it too. And probably given up on colors once and for all; they are the source of a lot of problems and frustration. 

[pgh]

12 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

It probably is a reasonable time to buy,

I’ll be honest I don’t think the brand of Leica and the notion of a reasonable time to buy ever go hand in hand - at least historically they have not. And that’s okay. 

[setuporg]

4 hours ago, pgh said:

I’ll be honest I don’t think the brand of Leica and the notion of a reasonable time to buy ever go hand in hand - at least historically they have not. And that’s okay. 

The only reasonable time to buy Leica is when you are feeling unreasonably exuberant.  Which happens often if you are an optimist!:)

Edited December 8, 2024 by setuporg

[jakontil]

2 minutes ago, setuporg said:

The only reasonable time to buy Leica is when you are feeling unreasonably exuberant.  Which happens often if you are an optimist!:)

I thought when it was released to the wild, first time upload to social media.. feels paid off

[adan]

On 12/5/2024 at 10:36 AM, Wandering Photographer said:

It would seem the camera’s sensor and analog to digital conversion technology would set the bounds on what the gamut could cover. 

The words you are looking for there are the sensor's "Dynamic Range." Which in the M11 is very very good, actually, at about 14 f/stops (doublings of brightness) - or being able to distinguish 16384 "shades of brightness" between black (0) and white (16384) x the three color channels = potentially 4 trillion discrete colors.

Gamut is not a measurement of that.

[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/5/2024 at 9:47 PM, SrMi said:

Technical data in M10-R's English manual (page 142) specifies color space as sRBG. Of course, this applies only to JPEGs.

 

I was just referencing the specifications blurb on the Leica web site, not the manuals.

[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:12 AM, pgh said:

I was never tempted by the M11, but I am a little by the D - and the only thing that temps me is the lack of the screen. 

Thanks for saving me 9k and parting with my M10 system. M10 isn't perfect - the sensor is lacking a little. It's why an M10-D won't do it for me. My M10 is well loved but that sensor really has been a limit in few but important scenarios. But I never shoot color anymore. And my M10M is basically perfect. It just has that damn screen. But I guess I can continue to put up with that. 

None of the other improvements have anything to do with the way that I shoot. Batteries, storage, etc etc all fixes to things never problems for me. 

If I could design a camera it would be a monochrome - D version.

I don't much care if in an M11 or M10 body (baseplate or not) - and probably not more than 45 mp, as I think 60 is just too much for handheld cameras, but hoping that new tech would yield improvements in the DR instead of the absolute resolution. But really, the M10-M is just so damn good. 

Why not just ignore the screen? For myself, I use it to check the camera’s status, particularly how much battery I have left, but also other settings as well. With the M11 it makes it easy to diagnose when the camera has frozen up and needs to be restarted.

[Wandering Photographer]

It is curious how much buying and selling is discussed on these Leica forums. It seems the buying, selling and trading in one for an other are almost as compelling as taking photographs.
 

After graduating from college I spent the summer working in a camera store in Ann Arbor, Michigan, long since gone out of business. They allowed me to borrow Leicas out of the used section on my days off. But until I bought my M10-R, used Nikon because I like to do close up and wildlife photography and a range finder just didn’t cut it. But as I have aged the advantage of a more compact and lighter camera like a Leica became more useful. I still use my Nikons for wildlife and closeups.

[pgh]

5 hours ago, Wandering Photographer said:

Why not just ignore the screen? For myself, I use it to check the camera’s status, particularly how much battery I have left, but also other settings as well. With the M11 it makes it easy to diagnose when the camera has frozen up and needs to be restarted.

Because ignoring a screen is like ignoring a jackhammer working outside your office? At least for me.

Full respect to anyone who has the zen discipline to do this out in real life. I’ve done okay at it, but not enough to my liking. I would pay good money to not have the option - all other things equal and freezing bugs not an issue. Other people find that ridiculous but like my monochrom eliminates the choice of color, I appreciate not having to make the decision in the first place. That is concrete value added for me and how I work. The problem with most tech in the world now isn’t what it can’t do, it’s that it does too much to the point of distraction from the goal at hand. It creates a noisier mind.  

On another note, here in Ann Arbor there are now two camera shops on Stadium within half a mile of each other. I don’t understand it, and I don’t think that situation will last, but it’s good to see for the moment. 

Finally, of course buying and selling are compelling to many - it’s the same in any hobbyist pursuit. It’s the backbone of the culture of most of the countries of origins of the posters here, or if not the backbone a significant structural element. Maybe that’s not discussed explicitly but look at the activity in any of niche interest - I think it would take an ostrich to pretend that’s not a significant reason for the gathering. 

[Wandering Photographer]

16 hours ago, pgh said:

Because ignoring a screen is like ignoring a jackhammer working outside your office? At least for me.

Full respect to anyone who has the zen discipline to do this out in real life. I’ve done okay at it, but not enough to my liking. I would pay good money to not have the option - all other things equal and freezing bugs not an issue. Other people find that ridiculous but like my monochrom eliminates the choice of color, I appreciate not having to make the decision in the first place. That is concrete value added for me and how I work. The problem with most tech in the world now isn’t what it can’t do, it’s that it does too much to the point of distraction from the goal at hand. It creates a noisier mind.  

On another note, here in Ann Arbor there are now two camera shops on Stadium within half a mile of each other. I don’t understand it, and I don’t think that situation will last, but it’s good to see for the moment. 

Finally, of course buying and selling are compelling to many - it’s the same in any hobbyist pursuit. It’s the backbone of the culture of most of the countries of origins of the posters here, or if not the backbone a significant structural element. Maybe that’s not discussed explicitly but look at the activity in any of niche interest - I think it would take an ostrich to pretend that’s not a significant reason for the gathering. 

I also have the Visio Flex on each M camera and use it with the thumb wheel to move the histogram to where I want it to be. I focus with the range finder and then frame with the Visio Flex. That is perhaps due to having used SLRs most of my life. For me, it is like an interactive zone system.

It has been about 10 years or more since I visited Ann Arbor. When I was last there, there was a closed Ritz Camera Store where the Quarry Camera Store used to be in 1968. The camera store I worked in was associated with the Quarry Pharmacy. It was right at the intersection of N. University and State Street. Looking at Google Maps, I don’t think I could find my way around these days without a map. Only a few of the landmarks are where I remembered them being. 
 

[setuporg]

Update: just received a mint M-P Typ 240 that is the only M to shoot color video.  After shooting lots of kids videos with the M246, this is a perfect companion.  The battery life exceeds M11s.  The gorilla glass screen is bright and everything feels just right.  The video makes it an important option for family vacations.  So it worked out very well.  For the main M, enjoying the trusted M10-R again.  I always had a nagging feeling that M11 colors are too sharp and Sony-like, and M10-R assuages that with the expected, classic Leica look.

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Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[RQ44]

A truly superb camera.

[satijntje]

Am 28.12.2024 um 00:03 schrieb setuporg:

Update: just received a mint M-P Typ 240 that is the only M to shoot color video.  After shooting lots of kids videos with the M246, this is a perfect companion.  The battery life exceeds M11s.  The gorilla glass screen is bright and everything feels just right.  The video makes it an important option for family vacations.  So it worked out very well.  For the main M, enjoying the trusted M10-R again.  I always had a nagging feeling that M11 colors are too sharp and Sony-like, and M10-R assuages that with the expected, classic Leica look.

Although the colors of the M240 series are often criticized, it was always my favourite M camera.
It’s the only M that can do video (but I didn‘t use it often), its battery life is endless and I loved the colors when coupled with a 50mm Summilux ASPH.