UliWer Posted November 26, 2024 Share #21 Posted November 26, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, it certainly is the finder for the Kiev. Though the "Leitz" logo was done very diligently: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5713264'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 26, 2024 Posted November 26, 2024 Hi UliWer, Take a look here Some examples of the world of counterfeiters.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2024 Share #22 Posted November 27, 2024 Yes, me too have the Russian original... Which in turn derived from the Zeiss for contax😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 27, 2024 Share #23 Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) Well, the idea for such a “multi-telescope” finder may have derived from the Zeiss Ikon version which was an accessory for the Contax. Though when I look through the three versions I have - Carl Zeiss Jena (I think post-war), Zeiss Ikon Stuttgart (post-war) and the Zenith finder - it is obvious that the “Made in USSR”-version is the best. The frames for the different focal lengthes are much larger, brighter and sharper and you have a helpful cross-line. The Carl Zeiss Jena was very sophisticated as it shows the focal lengthes in the frames and you could finetune the sharpness and parallax correction according to the distance though this is rather clumsy in action and the frames are small. The West-German version had a parallax correction by steps, a finetuning for sharpness, both clumsy, but the view is very small. They also differ in the widest frames: 28mm for the Zenith, 25mm East-German and 21mm West-German. Edited November 27, 2024 by UliWer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted November 28, 2024 Share #24 Posted November 28, 2024 Perhaps in this family of finders belongs also the Steinheil finderfor focal lengths of 35, 85/90 and 135 mm. It thus was equipped with three telescopes. It also appeared with the names of both Steinheil and Tower on the back, since Tower was also on the Culminar lenses for the American market. Lex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 3, 2024 Author Share #25 Posted December 3, 2024 Have you seen this strange Leica Ia coming up for auction on December 8, 2024 (USA). Details of the Elmax lens mistakenly listed as an Elmar suggest it is a fake. What do you think? The last photo being an original Elmax. Pierre Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5717457'>More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 4, 2024 Author Share #26 Posted December 4, 2024 Even the internal mechanism is suspect🤔 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5717593'>More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 4, 2024 Author Share #27 Posted December 4, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/192609987_leica-i-camera-and-an-elmar-1-35-f50mm-lens?from=alert&utm_source=LA_SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert_20230912_A&utm_medium=email&utm_content=itemendingsoon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted December 4, 2024 Share #28 Posted December 4, 2024 For me, the main identifyer is the F=50mm inscription on the lens face. The Elmax is normally a small raised "mm", while on the elmar it is usually a larger lower "mm". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted December 4, 2024 Share #29 Posted December 4, 2024 Would the location of the serial number on this Monte camera be of concern? Or is the far left position just a normal engraver viariation? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5717893'>More sharing options...
UliWer Posted December 5, 2024 Share #30 Posted December 5, 2024 Looking at the photos of different „Monté en Sarre“ bodies I see some variations of the serial number‘s position. No. 73351 at Lager I, p.82 (which seems to be an outlier) and Nos. 359255 and 359281 (van Hasbroeck p. 79) have the engraving more leftward than others, though not as far as your example . So I‘d guess that there were some „engraver variations“ „en Sarre“. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 5, 2024 Author Share #31 Posted December 5, 2024 14 hours ago, alan mcfall said: The location of the serial number on this Monte Carlo camera would be... One more curiosity🤔 This is not the only detail on this series, we note different typography and sometimes inconsistent engravings as attached. "Monté en Saar" instead of "Monté en Sarre". Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5718154'>More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted December 5, 2024 Share #32 Posted December 5, 2024 Good morning, Pierre, This camera "Mounted in Saar" has been the subject of comments in Summilux France that put into doubt its authenticity. certain evoked the possibility that the engraving had been made in German but it seems to me that in German the "Saar" is written "Saarland"... I also have a photo camera Monté en Sarre, whose number is well aligned, but which is not engraved "Monté en Sarre" . Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5718263'>More sharing options...
UliWer Posted December 5, 2024 Share #33 Posted December 5, 2024 This Nr. (sic!) 359122 was synchronized later and it seems it has a new top-plate (keeping the original number). The „GmbH“ stands for a later time than the „Monté en Sarre“. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 5, 2024 Author Share #34 Posted December 5, 2024 This is the remark I wanted to make 😉, the engraving "Monté en Sarre" was not transferred to the new top,-plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaIIIfContaxIIa Posted December 7, 2024 Share #35 Posted December 7, 2024 (edited) Am 5.12.2024 um 15:06 schrieb PG Black nickel: certain evoked the possibility that the engraving had been made in German but it seems to me that in German the "Saar" is written "Saarland"... This is usually the case, but not always. At times, the term ‘Saar’ was also used in German to refer to the Saar region / Saarland. But never in a context like this: an engraving in German language would have said "Hergestellt im Saarland". According to my memory, the name ‘Sarre’ can be found on several crockeries from the manufacturer Villeroy & Boch, which were made in Saarland. The place name dates from the period after the Second World War until the mid-1950s, when Saarland was an independent state. Edited December 7, 2024 by LeicaIIIfContaxIIa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted December 7, 2024 Author Share #36 Posted December 7, 2024 The inconsistency of the engraving "Monté en Saar" comes from the fact that a case with the No. 359378 dated 1949 should be correctly engraved "Monté en Sarre" since the Sarre was under French protectorate from 1947 to 1956. Knowing that a number of fakes circulate, it would be necessary to check the number engraved under the cover. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted December 11, 2024 Share #37 Posted December 11, 2024 Am 5.12.2024 um 15:06 schrieb PG Black nickel: I also have a photo camera Monté en Sarre, whose number is well aligned, but which is not engraved "Monté en Sarre" ...and I have a photo of another 359122, was offered few years ago on auction in Hongkong. One need to be very cautious with Monte en Saare. Both are flash synced, the one below has however diopter lever from older cameras and wind knob with film reminder Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416227-some-examples-of-the-world-of-counterfeiters/?do=findComment&comment=5721047'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted December 11, 2024 Share #38 Posted December 11, 2024 ...and DBP and capital letters indicate that the top cover was engraved after 1954 while engraving on camera shown by PG black nickel are earlier. However not too much, both have a small screw at contact nu,ber "11" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted December 11, 2024 Share #39 Posted December 11, 2024 hello Jerzy, Congratulations on this find! As for my 359122 I got it in a auction house in Sarrebrucken... At least it was his birthplace. The camera is covered with vertical Sharkskin. I will try to get more information from info-Leica because I think it has been upgraded at Leica. The number that must be noted in the body would solve this mystery but I do not really want to disprove it. Jerzy, do you think it is possible that the old hood 359122 with the engraving "Monté en Sarre" recovered by Leica during the levelling works could have been used on another camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCV Posted December 13, 2024 Share #40 Posted December 13, 2024 My concern ... I had this camera listed on Ebay.. a customer mentioned placement of serial number was towards the left comparing it to all of the others that were on Ebay.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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