Still so impressed with the M10M

[Stuart Richardson]

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I have had the M10M for about a year now, and I have to admit that I do not use it all the time. My main work camera is the SL2 and on my daily life beat I often use the Ricoh GRIIIx as it slips in my pocket. But I have a number of M lenses from twenty years of Leica and no longer had a digital M, so I picked up a used M10M. I have to say it is just extraordinarily impressive. The form and handling are so well sorted, it is so quiet and discreet, and the results it is capable of putting out with the right lenses and handling is just crazy. I still occasionally struggle a bit with its highlight behavior, as I am used to film, but if you shoot it like slide film you are golden. Or just massively underexpose, because you can push it as much as you want.

I have been on an artists' residency and using it while I am here I have just been really impressed. Also for how well it sits in with my black and white film photos.

The two crops are at 200% from the Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar. Meanwhile, while I am not that impressed with the other two as photos, they do kind of amaze me. The one in the forest is at ISO 4000 and has the grain of TMX 100 in medium format, while the next was shot handheld at a 1/15th at ISO 16000 with a .5 stop push and some shadow lifting etc. The grain is like Tmax 400 in 35mm. It does not have the tonality, but it is still impressive. I know everyone loves this camera, but I gripe a lot, so I just wanted to take a moment to comment on how great this camera is. (The SL2 and SL2S too, to be honest). Leica really gave us an great tool with this one.

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[Jeff S]

The M10 Monochrom is my most used camera, by far (followed by the SL2, while the M10-R (BP) sits mostly idle, but not because of any IQ issues.) It’s a worthy successor to my former M film cameras. The M11 platform (and SL3) hold no interest.
 

Jeff

[charlesphoto99]

My primary camera is the M10-R, but when I need the iso under tricky lighting, and/or the subject calls for it, nothing compares to the M10M. Bands, night, out with friends, horses, etc. And everything else for that matter. I'm including a landscape from a flight to Palm Springs that I decided to take the 'Chrome on a whim. I'm most partial to the 10-R for landscapes and family/travel as those are long term projects I've working on where b&w just doesn't fit in). But at high iso, wow I can make photos I only could before with flash. And I love it with flash as well (can be very forgiving and classic looking compared to color). One can really push the files around in post. Files can be disappointingly flat if one doesn't. 

Landscape probably 160 or 400 iso. Horse 12K, Band 400 with Profoto A1. Mudhoney 25K or 50k iso.  

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

I also found it worked great with the A1! I  had some problems getting ttl to meter properly with the Leica air module, but that could be user error. It was the first time I tried. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Having started my Monochrom experience with a used M246, acquiring the M10M (an Open Box item from one of the large dealers) was an amazing, eye-opening experience. It surpassed the M246 completely, yet without refuting it, simply improving upon it in so many ways.

It surpassed my expectations so thoroughly that the decision to sell the M246 was uncomplicated. Someone's probably still using that M246, hopefully having the time of their lives with it!

When the M11M came out I experienced an unexpected disgruntlement that did not occur with the coming of the M10M. Why, I wondered? The answer was realizing a sentiment about the M10M that had emerged through using it. I simply liked it so well, it matched my needs and hopes so completely... What could the M11M possibly offer? To find the answer to that question, I eventually (somewhat grudgingly) got hold of an M11M (another Open Box) and came to understand it's extraordinary capabilities. My plan was to sell the M10M the way I'd sold the M246....

... and, it still hasn't happened. 

I can't bring myself to part with it. It's here, largely still, just waiting. I've entertained the idea of explaining it as a "backup," as if my needs were so critical I couldn't be without a Monochrom if something happened to the M11M. Well... that's actually largely true, that is, it's how I feel. But, in fact, I simply felt unwilling to part with it. 

The decision to add the M11M to my stable was a decision of the head. It made sense to use its capabilities, since they were available. It still makes sense. I use it most of all. 

But the "decision" to hold on tight to the M10M as well, if it was a decision at all, was a decision of the heart. I can't recall a camera body I've ever felt about that way before, not to this extent. 

It feels more like the way I can get attached to a musical instrument than it is like the way I keep a great piece of equipment because it meets my needs.

Edited October 20, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo
Cleaned up a typo

[newtoleica]

Also loving mine. Had it 2 months now. The M10-P is unused but I can’t sell it yet, and may not. I have a Q2 for the stuff I use colour for. 

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[Stuart Richardson]

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3 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

ecision of the head. It made sense to use its capabilities, since they were available. It still makes sense. I use it most of all. 

But the "decision" to hold on tight to the M10M as well, if it was a decision at all, was a decision of the heart. I can't recall a camera body I've ever felt about that way before, not to this extent. 

It feels more like the way I can get attached to a musical instrument than it is like the way I keep a great piece of equipment because it meets my needs.

I actually think it is a bit the opposite. I think in the previous generation of cameras (M10M, M10R, SL2, SL2S), Leica achieved most of what was possible and needed to be achieved with those platforms. The next generation of cameras then started to try to create solutions where there were not really problems (at least for many users). I am not against iterative improvement, but I think ultimately the digital camera market has matured and some of the changes required for "improvement" were necessarily a setback for other parts of the use. The two main examples of this for me are the power switch setup in the SL3 (swapping out a very simple and reliable binary switch for a illuminated power button). In exchange for a camera that can be always ready for bluetooth and mobile integration we had to give up the simplicity of a ergonomic binary switch. In the M11 in order to improve the metering, they had to make a more complicated shutter sequence that added an extra step that many users experience as "slower" or louder.

I guess for me, the thing that is great about the M10M is that I cannot really think of any capability that it lacks that I need...at least not in an M camera. If anything, it would be stabilization, but that would be more of a nice to have rather than a necessity. I work as an exhibition printer and I think 40mp with a black and white only sensor are more than enough for any exhibition I might want to participate in. There are cameras who can do more or better, but in an M camera that is plenty. Honestly the exact right amount. Similarly, the quality of the results in low light are staggering, and I cannot really imagine needing more. There is something freeing about being off the bandwagon for constant improvement. Sometimes enough is enough. While there is always something that can be improved, more recently I have felt like improvements in one area come at the cost of another. I shot with the S006 for about seven years and finally upgraded to the S3 and found it to be a far less appealing camera than the S006. It had improved in certain ways, but at the cost of what I liked about the S006. I feel like the SL3 has been the same for the SL2. I have kept the SL2 because the areas in which they improved did not seem to be worth the trade off of changing. I think the M10M is so appealing because it just got it right. Changing it is risky and largely unnecessary. Of course Leica had to do it as they would cease to exist as a company if they did not keep trying to get more sales, but for me at least I think it will be a long time before I consider another monochrome M (or color, for that matter).

[DadDadDaddyo]

@StuartR - Excellent post! That's the well- thought-out statement of a guy who knows what he's about!

After realizing I was hardly ever using it, I actually reached the direction-changing decision to sell my SL2 gear and, yes, even those stupendous lenses. I just wasn't reaching for them.

That in turn financed a return to the Fujifilm GFX system I'd sold off, in part to swing the M11M. I thought the SL2 system would take the place of the GFX100 and its lenses, especially at the sizes I normally print. Now, with the GFX system back in hand, the body that sits neglected is the M11!

But none of these, none of 'em, take the place of the two Monochrom bodies. If someone ordered me that everything "had to go," they'd be the last standing, that's for certain. Everything else is an embarrassment of plenty, but the Monochrom system is essential. It's literally all I would need for the rest of my time remaining (may it be many years)!

[ramarren]

I remain thoroughly happy with my M10-M as well as the other Ms I already have. Not looking to buy anything further for a while at least. 

G

[Jon Warwick]

Thanks Stuart for your well-informed thoughts.

I used to own an M10M, which I paired with the 50 APO Lanthar (and also 50mm v5 Summicron, which has a rendering that I like even more on the Monochroms, albeit I found the v5 needs quite a bit more stopping down to achieve full edge sharpness due to field curvature for landscapes).

In a GAS-inspired enthusiasm for the Monochrom experience that I had enjoyed so much, I sold the M10M with full plans to buy a brand new M11 Monochrom when it launched, and then, whoops, a fantastic deal on a second-hand color-sensor M11 came up, so I went down that route in the interim. I have every intention of getting an M11 Monochrom now that their used prices are coming down - in hindsight, despite being Monochrom-less for a year, it's probably been better for my wallet to have someone else take the brunt of the M11M's new vs used price, so not bad for me to be patient in hindsight. 

What I do think is the Monochroms produce an output that I prefer from any other digital camera I've tried - for me, it's not really "how much" extra detail they record, rather, it's "the way" the Monochroms record fine details & textures (to my eyes, textures look more real, and are recorded in a purer way, with no moire, less digital artefacts, and really smooth and expanded tonality ....when compared to color sensor cameras, a Monochrom is like going up a size format in film in terms of tonality to my eyes. I think it's that part of the Monochrom senor benefits that I really appreciate).

In terms of resolution, though, the M11 Monochrom does produce more apparent detail than my M11 - I road tested the M11M for a weekend, and did like-for-like images vs my M11 and GFX100S. The apparent resolution in a 60" wide print looked identical (to my eyes) between the M11M and GFX100S, and I was looking really really hard for differences. Pretty incredible really that one can get such output from such a small and light M body.

 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[Luke_Miller]

21 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

......... but for me at least I think it will be a long time before I consider another monochrome M (or color, for that matter).

Stuart I agree and that is whay I stopped "upgrading" after I bought my M240 and M246.  While I wouldn't mind the rangefinder and ISO improvements of the M10 bodies, they are not sufficient justification for me to make the expenditure.  Regarding the SL cameras, I love my SL (Typ 601) and tolerate the user interface changes in the SL2 series due to the useful functional additions.  My comment here when the SL3 was announced was that "Leica jumped the shark" with its design. I will continue with my SL2 & SL2-S bodies and wait to see what the SL4 offers.

[Photojournoguy]

Glad to see so many passionate about the Monochrom and read about everyone's experiences. In a non-traditional journey, the M10M is my first and only entry into Leica. Zero temptation by the M11M.

This right here (x 1,000!) is how I'd explain it as well and sums up my reason for no plans to abandon the feeling it gives me while shooting or the results in PP. Many say how 'oh so close' they can get by converting and can agree situationally, but there is something beyond that I see that cannot ALWAYS (and reliably so) be captured.

4 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

What I do think is the Monochroms produce an output that I prefer from any other digital camera I've tried - for me, it's not really "how much" extra detail they record, rather, it's "the way" the Monochroms record fine details & textures (to my eyes, textures look more real, and are recorded in a purer way, with no moire, less digital artefacts, and really smooth and expanded tonality ....when compared to color sensor cameras, a Monochrom is like going up a size format in film in terms of tonality to my eyes. I think it's that part of the Monochrom senor benefits that I really appreciate).

 

 

[newtoleica]

Agree, I held off a long time as I kept seeing reviews that concentrated on high iso noise improvements but didn’t look at tonality.

i think I’m quite good at B&W conversions with silver effects pro and LR, but the results from the mono are amazing. You can get good contrast images with nicely blocked up shadows like TriX and STILL have good mid tones. Even better the files come out of the camera pretty much like that. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, newtoleica said:

Even better the files come out of the camera pretty much like that. 

Not until Adobe incorporated an adjustment to the default import LR tone curve, probably due to complaints about flat files OOC (which is common with high DR files) from inexperienced users.

Jeff

[Ken Abrahams]

Plus One + for the M10M Camera 

I still have the M9M however it's a sentimental kind of ownership except that it still produces the most amazing CCD files when I become nostalgic. The M10M much to the dismay of my friends competitivess and his claims the Leica S produces better image quality, (converted to monochrom) goes neck and neck but the S is pipped at the finish line. The way these unfettered pixels from an M camera system render, still impresses me. I was the first recipient of the M10M in Western Australia back in January 22 2020. 

The SL3 and SL2S compliment my black and white work, while the M10M very much retains its "specialness" after 4 years. The SL2 not so much after 12 months it doesn't get used all now. 

[Jeff S]

41 minutes ago, Ken Abrahams said:

The SL3 and SL2S compliment my black and white work, 

Do they say “nice work, Ken”?

Jeff

[Ken Abrahams]

52 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Do they say “nice work, Ken”?

Jeff

Every Now and again Jeff,  it’s more the double glance at LCD and following silence. K

[Jeff S]

16 minutes ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Every Now and again Jeff,  it’s more the double glance at LCD and following silence. K

Every once in a while, a sense of humor and a smile goes a long way.

Jeff

[JoshuaR]

Like @Stuart Richardson, I've also had an M10M for about a year and have been really impressed by it. I don't use it as much as I probably could. For most of my everyday photography, I'm happier working with a color camera (my M10-R) and converting to black and white later, if it makes sense for the image. I've often thought about selling the M10M, or, more recently, about trading it in along with my M10-R for an M11-D. (I'm on a waitlist.)

The thing is that I really do love the look of the M10M files, and when the light or scene is right it's pretty thrilling for me to think exclusively in black and white, as I used to while shooting black and white film. As a way of getting myself to use the M10M more regularly, I've put a very compact lens on it—the Light Lens Lab 35 f/2 8-element collapsible—and started taking it out alongside my M10-R. The camera and lens combination is exceedingly small and fits into a front pocket in most bags, so bringing two Ms isn't too burdensome. When the light or scene calls for black and white I switch from the R to the M.

I'm still not sure that the two-camera approach makes sense for someone who, like me, is basically an "everyday documentary" kind of photographer who takes mainly family pictures, and so I'm still on the D waitlist. But there's no question that the M10M is an exceptional camera, and if I do move on from it, I'm sure I'll miss it. 

With the LLL 35 Collapsible:

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Edited October 23, 2024 by JoshuaRothman

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[Keith (M)]

Took delivery of mine on 4th Feb 2020 - and I have rarely touched my M7 since and have passed my 503CX to my son.  The M01M's ability to record such creamy tonality across a broad range of subjects and conditions still amazes and delights me.  Then of course there is its 'black cat in coal cellar' capability (photo 2 at ISO 64000, 50mm Summilux, hand-held).  A camera I will never sell!

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