Comparison of new Q3 43 APO lens to 35mm APO Summicron SL and 35mm APO-M lenses

[egrossman]

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Leica Miami compared the performance of the Q3 43 lens to the Q3 and the 35mm APO SL and 35mm APO-M. Wide open they are all the same in center. The standard bearer for performance across the Leica line-up, the 35mm APO-Summicron-SL was only slightly sharper in the corners and exhibited less vignetting but surprisingly, the 43mm lens was sharper in the corners than the 35mm APO-M.

The lens comparison starts at around 1h19m into the video.

Erik

 

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by egrossman

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[egrossman]

35mm APO SL is the best lens Leica has ever made in terms of absolute technical performance. The Q 43 is only slightly less sharp and vignettes more in the corners which surprised Leica Miami. The 35mm APO-M was slightly worse in the corners than either of the two and the 28mm Summilux was the weakest (again by a small margin in the corners) than all of the test candidates. Center sharpness was the same for all lenses.

[Kim Dahl]

I prefer sharpness and clean, natural colors then the Leica Q3 28/43 is hard to pass up - and want a compact camera. It is very impressive how far Leica has come but the Q models. 🙂

[jlehrer]

We sure are spoiled for choice in the Leica lens lineup these days! I had a lot of fun performing these tests. My methodology isn't perfect, as I did my best to explain, but I do hope the comparisons help Leica users pick out the best lens for their photography.

[Tseg]

It is painful waiting for the 43 restock to get mine... and then seeing so many discounted Q3's on sale... so tempted to get both.  For now, still holding out for just the 43.

[Stuart Richardson]

It was interesting to me how they didn't talk about how much cleaner the 35mm APO Summicron SL looked than the 43mm on the test charts. No false colors, almost no visible moiré and better tonal separation of the reds. That is just looking at the youtube video at 4k on a laptop screen. It would be interesting if we could download the files ourselves. Is that something we can do? I cannot watch the full two hours, haha. Don't get me wrong, the 43mm looks incredible, but the 35mm still looks quite a bit better. But that could also be just be a quirk of focal length and distance to the test chart and how that aligns with the Nyquist frequency...but it was certainly visible to me.

Edited October 15, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Kim Dahl]

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11 hours ago, jlehrer said:

We sure are spoiled for choice in the Leica lens lineup these days! I had a lot of fun performing these tests. My methodology isn't perfect, as I did my best to explain, but I do hope the comparisons help Leica users pick out the best lens for their photography.

Hi, thanks for all your tests.

In fact, I now have (unopened = right to retune) a Leica Q3 43 and a Leica M11-D at home.

Only one will be opened ☺️.

Today I have a leica MD (262) with a leica M35 APO. Which I am completely satisfied with. (I'm into clean and sharp images and not so much into old lenses - but that's just me)

So that's why I also have a Q3 - which is being used more and more instead of the MD. I really like the Q3 for everyday because of holiday photos - which I do most. But needs a little more range sometimes. I don't want to sell my Q328- not until Q4 28APO ☺️

I know they are two different systems but not really that different to use. Except AF.  

I was surprised that the Q3 43 was AS good as my M35 APO!

And that has made me consider buying the Q343 and "waiting" with the M until an M12 comes out.

It's no secret that there are quite a few problems with the M11.

I always have an M. I think the M12 is going to be much more like the Q. Battery etc. And it good.  

Good advice is welcome. 😁 but what do you think? 

[JTLeica]

On 10/13/2024 at 9:03 PM, Quarterpounder said:

So who won?

Think he mentioned that in his text 😂

[jonoslack]

6 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

 

It's no secret that there are quite a few problems with the M11.

 

Hi There Kim - I think that with the recent firmware updates all the M11 problems are sorted out (at least to a level equivalent to the M10). 

[jonoslack]

18 hours ago, jlehrer said:

We sure are spoiled for choice in the Leica lens lineup these days! I had a lot of fun performing these tests. My methodology isn't perfect, as I did my best to explain, but I do hope the comparisons help Leica users pick out the best lens for their photography.

Well done Josh! 

I thought of trying this, but I didn't have a Q28 knocking about and used that as an excuse. You've done a splendid job - and I think you've arrived at what I imagined to be the case, which is that the Q3 43 lens is better than anything except the 35 APO SL (it might be interesting to compare it with the 50 APO SL as well (sorry I don't have one 😂). 

On the other hand there is something very special about the 'look' of the Q3 43 lens which you can't really measure - it rather crept up on me - I'm currently writing a follow up article about 10 days in Crete with the Q3 43 - shot almost exclusively at f2.

All the best

Jono

[Kim Dahl]

4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There Kim - I think that with the recent firmware updates all the M11 problems are sorted out (at least to a level equivalent to the M10). 

Hi Jono,

thanks for the reply. I it is difficult.

As I have written, I have both a Leica Q3 43 AND a Leica M11-D in original box and neither has been opened yet. (Open is bought) -

I know them both very well I have a Q3 28 and a Leica MD.

I have become so happy with my Q3 that at the moment I prefer to just keep the Q3 43 and then wait for the M12 if ever. 

To be honest, the Q3 and Q3 43 cover most I do. M is actually not necessary.

The images I've seen with Q343 at f2 look absolutely fantastic.

I think it is a camera that lives best at F2.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

Hi Jono,

thanks for the reply. I it is difficult.

As I have written, I have both a Leica Q3 43 AND a Leica M11-D in original box and neither has been opened yet. (Open is bought) -

I know them both very well I have a Q3 28 and a Leica MD.

I have become so happy with my Q3 that at the moment I prefer to just keep the Q3 43 and then wait for the M12 if ever. 

To be honest, the Q3 and Q3 43 cover most I do. M is actually not necessary.

The images I've seen with Q343 at f2 look absolutely fantastic.

I think it is a camera that lives best at F2.

So you've given the answer wich one to keep. Q3 28/43 is much more capable and way more fun than this uber idealistic M11-D. Had an M10-D once. OK , nice experience, clean design - but the better shots are taken with the Q´s!

I think I get what your feelings are towards the M: This is the real Leica, all manual, rangefinder blah blah...but at the end it is outdated. It uses 1950´s tech. Why not using the potential modern  technology gives us? I have sold all my M (10-R+10mono) with 6 Leica Lenses and not looking back. It just restricted me! Keep your MD for having an M and let the M11 pass. 

[Smogg]

15 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

Hi Jono,

thanks for the reply. I it is difficult.

As I have written, I have both a Leica Q3 43 AND a Leica M11-D in original box and neither has been opened yet. (Open is bought) -

I know them both very well I have a Q3 28 and a Leica MD.

I have become so happy with my Q3 that at the moment I prefer to just keep the Q3 43 and then wait for the M12 if ever. 

To be honest, the Q3 and Q3 43 cover most I do. M is actually not necessary.

The images I've seen with Q343 at f2 look absolutely fantastic.

I think it is a camera that lives best at F2.

The unexpected appearance of the Q3 43 prompted me to sell three cameras at once: the M11, M11-P and SL3. The Q3 and Q3 43 completely cover my favorite focal range, while together they weigh as much as the SL3 with a light (Sigma) zoom lens.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

My informal tests against the APO 50's (SL and M) show the same thing. The SL 50 APO is *slightly* better in the corners and the M 50 APO is slightly behind. *Slighly* meaning under testing and in the real world you'll likely not see it and it'll have zero impact on the actual success of an image.

But one extra thing is true. It's much more reliable to get the right focus on the Q3-43 than an M. My eyes are good enough to easily focus the 50 APO and my system is perfectly calibrated. But the hit rate is higher with the SL and the Q3-43. Plus, the Q3's and SL have excellent IS systems.

For me, and this has been coming for a while, I'll likely keep my M11M, as it's unique, and move on my other M's. 90% of my M shooting is with a 50 anyway and the rest is split between a 28 and 90. I've kept my Q3-28 and set up an A7CR with a Sigma 90mm. I'm keeping my SL3's (I really like that camera, except the new dial) so they can help with a few specialist M lenses like my CV 50 1.0.

Leica should be expanding the Q line more. It's obvious this is where people want them to push harder in the autofocus space. If they don't someone else will do it. Actually, Sony already has and if the A7CRII has a decent EVF in it.....

Gordon

[JTLeica]

10 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

My informal tests against the APO 50's (SL and M) show the same thing. The SL 50 APO is *slightly* better in the corners and the M 50 APO is slightly behind. *Slighly* meaning under testing and in the real world you'll likely not see it and it'll have zero impact on the actual success of an image.

But one extra thing is true. It's much more reliable to get the right focus on the Q3-43 than an M. My eyes are good enough to easily focus the 50 APO and my system is perfectly calibrated. But the hit rate is higher with the SL and the Q3-43. Plus, the Q3's and SL have excellent IS systems.

For me, and this has been coming for a while, I'll likely keep my M11M, as it's unique, and move on my other M's. 90% of my M shooting is with a 50 anyway and the rest is split between a 28 and 90. I've kept my Q3-28 and set up an A7CR with a Sigma 90mm. I'm keeping my SL3's (I really like that camera, except the new dial) so they can help with a few specialist M lenses like my CV 50 1.0.

Leica should be expanding the Q line more. It's obvious this is where people want them to push harder in the autofocus space. If they don't someone else will do it. Actually, Sony already has and if the A7CRII has a decent EVF in it.....

Gordon

Spot on and the same for me, slightly behind the SL APO, and slightly ahead of the M APO. Although, I would say its the same at the 35 APO M, that lens seems to be almost its equal.

Having just shot 1400 images with it in venice, I am blown away by the camera.

I think the next Q will be a 24 or 28 APO Summicron, and then maybe in future you will see a 65 or 75.

I think the 'APO Summicron' designation hold a real weight to it now. And rightly so.

[Tseg]

I really appreciate this thread.   I have spent the past decade almost exclusively using an original Sony RX1 (35mm FL).   Just recently I started reading about the Q3 43 and now it has been a whirlwind of research for me around the Q3, Q3 43 and M11.   My Q3 43 is on order and have had both the Q3 and the M11 in a shopping cart this past week... I'm located in the US but considering buying through the UK due to availability and exchange rate.  With both cameras, my credit card fraud alert screening have stopped the transactions, which then made me reconsider the purchases... was it a sign?  For now, I think I will wait for the Q3 43 to arrive, hopefully by December.   I'm really torn when considering the vintage attributes of the M series.

 

[JTLeica]

3 minutes ago, Tseg said:

I really appreciate this thread.   I have spent the past decade almost exclusively using an original Sony RX1 (35mm FL).   Just recently I started reading about the Q3 43 and now it has been a whirlwind of research for me around the Q3, Q3 43 and M11.   My Q3 43 is on order and have had both the Q3 and the M11 in a shopping cart this past week... I'm located in the US but considering buying through the UK due to availability and exchange rate.  With both cameras, my credit card fraud alert screening have stopped the transactions, which then made me reconsider the purchases... was it a sign?  For now, I think I will wait for the Q3 43 to arrive, hopefully by December.   I'm really torn when considering the vintage attributes of the M series.

 

I love to hear this, the Q bringing in people to the M system. Or even considering it. I had the RX1R II some years ago, there is no comparison in image quality with that vs the Q3 APO. The lens is night and day.

 

[Dr. G]

4 hours ago, JTLeica said:

I love to hear this, the Q bringing in people to the M system. Or even considering it. I had the RX1R II some years ago, there is no comparison in image quality with that vs the Q3 APO. The lens is night and day.

 

My preferred wide to carry with the Q3 43 is the SL3 with the 21mm APO Summicron-SL.  It's a heavy and large combination as compared to the Q3 43.  The images are stunning but I'm starting to think about a M11/21 combination to carry instead because, as a travel kit, it would be the optimal size.

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[JTLeica]

17 minutes ago, Dr. G said:

My preferred wide to carry with the Q3 43 is the SL3 with the 21mm APO Summicron-SL.  It's a heavy and large combination as compared to the Q3 43.  The images are stunning but I'm starting to think about a M11/21 combination to carry instead because, as a travel kit, it would be the optimal size.

The M11 and 21 SEM would be a nice cheap pairing 😉 I have the voigtlander 21/1.4, it’s unbelievably sharp but it’s a brick.

The 21 apo I would love! Don’t tell me any more about it, please. Unless it’s negative 

[Dr. G]

4 minutes ago, JTLeica said:

The M11 and 21 SEM would be a nice cheap pairing 😉 I have the voigtlander 21/1.4, it’s unbelievably sharp but it’s a brick.

The 21 apo I would love! Don’t tell me any more about it, please. Unless it’s negative 

Don't look at the car photos I posted in SL3 image thread, then.