Leica Looks break Histogram and Zebra Capture Assistants

[Mark II]

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While any changes to JPEG rendering are, unfortunately, also going to change the behaviour of the histogram and zebra exposure tools, most of the "Leica Looks" completely break these tools.

I was testing the new Chrome look this morning and noticed that the camera *never* indicates over-exposure, no matter what you do.

Looking at the histogram, it appears that any Leica Look apart from 'Eternal' has a maximum cutoff that means that there will always be empty space at the right of the histogram and that the flashing zebra over-exposure indication can never be triggered.

Quite astonishing that they have been released in this way, and also frustrating that there is no obvious way to report any of the bugs in the Q3 firmware to Leica.

[jaapv]

You can mail Leica. Consult their website. 

[Dr. G]

Can you just use highlight metering and underexpose by 1/3 of a stop in the meantime?

[Mark II]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

You can mail Leica. Consult their website. 

Ok, I have emailed them at info@leica-camera.com. But I could not find a specific address for firmware bugs.

The current best work-around is just not to use Leica Looks, which is a shame because the new Chrome profile looked reasonable and closer to my normal final rendering (from DNG) than STD. I might take a look at loading my own LUTs onto the Q3, which would fix the issue, but which needs time for software development that I do not have right now. 

[aficionados]

Let me understand you correctly. You mean in Leica look except eternal the clipping is never shown because histogram has cut off somewhere in the middle?

I just checked a picture I took this morning. It’s contemporary Leica look. You can see the histogram shows full spectrum, and actually there are quite exposures on the right side.

Look at the picture, on the top right side beside that green tree, there is a black. It’s sky overexposure and it’s flashing.

The firmware is 2.0.5, I don’t see anything wrong .

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[aficionados]

4 hours ago, Mark II said:

Ok, I have emailed them at info@leica-camera.com. But I could not find a specific address for firmware bugs.

The current best work-around is just not to use Leica Looks, which is a shame because the new Chrome profile looked reasonable and closer to my normal final rendering (from DNG) than STD. I might take a look at loading my own LUTs onto the Q3, which would fix the issue, but which needs time for software development that I do not have right now. 

Here is better picture circled in red, showing full spectrum histogram with overexposure and the zebra flashing 

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[Mark II]

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I think that it may be marginal with Contemporary, but it is still not right. If you take a photo and then check what is overexposed, does it correspond to the zebras?

I think that the Chrome and the monochrome looks have the largest gap at the end of the histogram. While out shooting this morning with Chrome enabled, I realised that nothing I could do would trigger the zebras - not even putting the sun in frame and deliberately over exposing in full manual.

Using the Chrome look, I can shoot overexposed images with no zebra warning but which show some image data in the viewfinder - yet when the DNG is imported, RastRawViewer shows 100.0% of all 3 colour channels overexposed and the image is just a featureless blank.

I do not understand why camera manufacturers persist in using exposure indicators that are based on JPEG rendering rather than the actual raw sensor data.

[aficionados]

I tested all the Leica look and film style, only chrome doesn’t clipping. Everything else works normal.

[Mark II]

Then there is something else going on. The only one I can get some clipping indication from is Eternal, and maybe just a hint on Contemporary. None of the others show any clipping indication, and even when trying to overexpose as much as possible I can see some detail in the EVF, yet no zebra and the DNGs are completely burned out to plain white. 

[aficionados]

6 hours ago, Mark II said:

Then there is something else going on. The only one I can get some clipping indication from is Eternal, and maybe just a hint on Contemporary. None of the others show any clipping indication, and even when trying to overexpose as much as possible I can see some detail in the EVF, yet no zebra and the DNGs are completely burned out to plain white. 

I looked further in details at all the pictures I took for testing, you are right.

All the film style and leica look pictures have gaps on the right side in histogram. But Chrome is the one having the largest gap that's why we never see zebra flashing on Chrome pictures.

 

[SrMi]

Film-like looks or presets are expected not to show proper histograms or highlight warnings. Unfortunately, when highlights are concerned, a digital sensor behaves differently than a negative.

[jaapv]

The histograms are taken from the JPG anyway. The only M ever to have a raw histogram was the M9M.  

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

The histograms are taken from the JPG anyway. The only M ever to have a raw histogram was the M9M.  

Yes. Some JPEG settings produce histograms that are useful enough for raw shooters.

[Stuart Richardson]

The fact that highlights are clipped before 255 is a feature, not a bug. Film has more attenuated highlights than digital, so when trying to emulate it a shortcut a lot of presets use is to clip the highlights early. Not really how I like to do it, but it is what it is. Mark's problem is slightly different. It is that the clipping warnings did not get the memo, and so they are still looking for 255+ as the clipping warning. I am pretty sure that when I shot on Sony (and probably Panasonic too), it is possible to set the clipping warnings to a lower histogram number. This is especially common in video heavy cameras, as it is important for log profiles and certain emulations. Having the ability to define it manually is probably what one should ask for. Or probably better for most who would use presets: just have the clipping warning reflect the max highlight number of the profile. It is a very reasonable request.

Edited October 7, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The fact that highlights are clipped before 255 is a feature, not a bug. Film has more attenuated highlights than digital, so when trying to emulate it a shortcut a lot of presets use is to clip the highlights early. Not really how I like to do it, but it is what it is. Mark's problem is slightly different. It is that the clipping warnings did not get the memo, and so they are still looking for 255+ as the clipping warning. I am pretty sure that when I shot on Sony (and probably Panasonic too), it is possible to set the clipping warnings to a lower histogram number. This is especially common in video heavy cameras, as it is important for log profiles and certain emulations. Having the ability to define it manually is probably what one should ask for. Or probably better for most who would use presets: just have the clipping warning reflect the max highlight number of the profile. It is a very reasonable request.

Setting clipping warnings lower does not help with raw files. By the way, the only clipping setting useful for raw shooters with Sony cameras is 109+.

[John351]

Has anyone figured this out as of yet?  I am new to the Leica Q3.  I installed 3 Leica looks on the out of the box firmware and I believe it worked fine.  I just upgraded to the latest firmware and now the exhibit the same problem as described in this thread.  Since I have only had my camera a few days, I'm tempted to reset to factory defaults and load them again to confirm.