Leica SL3-S Incoming?

[SrMi]

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1 minute ago, BernardC said:

So Sony Micro is the weak link in this case? Let's hope they can come-up with something significantly better for the next high-res sensor (S4 this year or next?).

Only a stacked sensor can help.

[LBJ2]

18 minutes ago, helged said:

SL3-S with the sensor of SL2-S? If so, the rolling shutter is 22.5 ms

https://www.l-rumors.com/leica-sl3-s-has-same-sl2-s-sensor/

If this rumor proves to be true, there goes the hopes/opportunity for SL system stacked sensor for the foreseeable future. OTOH, maybe 24MPs will lend itself to better PDAF implementation than the SL3 and perhaps faster FPS ?

[BernardC]

7 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Only a stacked sensor can help.

I'm sure that all of their high-res customers (Fuji, Hasselblad, Leica, Nikon, Sony Consumer Electronics, and maybe Panasonic) are pushing them hard to resolve this problem.

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

If this rumor proves to be true, there goes the hopes/opportunity for SL system stacked sensor for the foreseeable future. OTOH, maybe 24MPs will lend itself to better PDAF implementation than the SL3 and perhaps faster FPS ?

It does. A stacked sensor is an elegant solution, but not a cure-all. There will be sluggish stacked sensors depending on the electronics. 

[LBJ2]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It does. A stacked sensor is an elegant solution, but not a cure-all. There will be sluggish stacked sensors depending on the electronics. 

Not even close to a cure-all, rather a current helpful solution for the effects in a couple of scenarios of slow sensor scan/readout speed. 

[simon_hsn]

55 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

If this rumor proves to be true, there goes the hopes/opportunity for SL system stacked sensor for the foreseeable future. OTOH, maybe 24MPs will lend itself to better PDAF implementation than the SL3 and perhaps faster FPS ?

I find it highly unlikely that this information is accurate. The sensor likely shares the same megapixel count as the SL2-S, but that’s where the similarities probably end. It’s hard to imagine Leica reusing the same sensor, as doing so would likely deter potential buyers

Edited January 13 by simon_hsn

[LBJ2]

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2 minutes ago, simon_hsn said:

 

I find it highly unlikely that this information is accurate. The sensor likely shares the same megapixel count as the SL2-S, but that’s where the similarities probably end. It’s hard to imagine Leica reusing the same sensor, as doing so would likely deter potential buyers

Rumors are rumors and we might know for sure in a couple of days due to yet another rumor of "Leica Jan 16th event invitations" 😀 

[CptSlevin]

1 hour ago, helged said:

SL3-S with the sensor of SL2-S? If so, the rolling shutter is 22.5 ms

https://www.l-rumors.com/leica-sl3-s-has-same-sl2-s-sensor/

If the rumor is true, Leica SL3S will be dead on arrival.
It's just a refurbished Lumix of old generation even if they give SL3S better than SL3 PDAF

[phojomatic]

The 16 Jan event is accurate, I received an invite to nyc with Gajan Balan as “host?” The invite adds a new product will be unveiled. 
 

In all honestly, if the SL3-s is just the same 24mp chip with all the SL3 features, that’s a really solid upgrade. More like an SL2-s Mark II.
 

I’m not sure they can just “add” Phase detect AF to the same chip, so the new chip might indeed be a new 24mp version.
 

It makes sense to separate the SL3 and SL3-s. A year ago I heard a “rumor” from Leica they might use a 36-24-12 mp chip (as a way to reach 8k). I thought that was just crazy, would prefer the 24mp. 
 

my .02/cents

[BernardC]

21 minutes ago, CptSlevin said:

It's just a refurbished Lumix of old generation even if they give SL3S better than SL3 PDAF

If it has PDAF it's an S5ii sensor, not an SL2 sensor or an S5 sensor.

[LBJ2]

15 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

The 16 Jan event is accurate, I received an invite to nyc with Gajan Balan as “host?” The invite adds a new product will be unveiled. 
 

In all honestly, if the SL3-s is just the same 24mp chip with all the SL3 features, that’s a really solid upgrade. More like an SL2-s Mark II.
 

I’m not sure they can just “add” Phase detect AF to the same chip, so the new chip might indeed be a new 24mp version.
 

It makes sense to separate the SL3 and SL3-s. A year ago I heard a “rumor” from Leica they might use a 36-24-12 mp chip (as a way to reach 8k). I thought that was just crazy, would prefer the 24mp. 
 

my .02/cents

I don't know, but from what I've think I've read somewhere, other cameras with PDAF might use the same base sensor in the SL2-S.

Edited January 13 by LBJ2

[BernardC]

9 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

I don't know, but from what I've think I've read somewhere, other cameras with PDAF might use the same base sensor in the SL2-S.

It depends what you mean by "base sensor." It's probably from the same manufacturer, and uses the same 24MP process, but it's not the same sensor. It's an evolution.

In the same way, two Intel chips from the same process generation can be argued to be the same chip, but they'll have different clock speeds, cache, processing power, energy use, etc.

[phojomatic]

5 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It depends what you mean by "base sensor." It's probably from the same manufacturer, and uses the same 24MP process, but it's not the same sensor. It's an evolution.

In the same way, two Intel chips from the same process generation can be argued to be the same chip, but they'll have different clock speeds, cache, processing power, energy use, etc.

Thanks for the explanation. It was my understanding that the AF grid (phase or contrast) is “printed” onto the sensor. Evolutions are good, not expecting a revolution until the next flagship sensor (M12) bc Leica has themselves in a box now…if all their cameras have the same 60/36/12 chip, where do you go from there?

[BernardC]

Also, let's not forget that the S5ii sensor is considered to be one of the best available video sensors in terms of IQ. Its only slight disadvantage is read speed, where it's not the absolute fastest, but very adequate in 99% of use cases. Frankly, if they just manage to overclock it while keeping power consumption (=heat) in the same range they'll be at the bleeding edge of what's on the market right now. It would be neat if they could release a global shutter sensor with the same performance, but the one GS sensor on the market right now isn't as good. Also, most high-end cinema cameras don't use global shutter.

We'll find-out all of the juicy details in a few days of course.

[LBJ2]

29 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It depends what you mean by "base sensor." It's probably from the same manufacturer, and uses the same 24MP process, but it's not the same sensor. It's an evolution.

In the same way, two Intel chips from the same process generation can be argued to be the same chip, but they'll have different clock speeds, cache, processing power, energy use, etc.

"It depends what you mean by "base sensor."  Just that. I intentionally wrote the same base sensor. 

 

[LBJ2]

26 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

Thanks for the explanation. It was my understanding that the AF grid (phase or contrast) is “printed” onto the sensor. Evolutions are good, not expecting a revolution until the next flagship sensor (M12) bc Leica has themselves in a box now…if all their cameras have the same 60/36/12 chip, where do you go from there?

"It was my understanding that the AF grid (phase or contrast) is “printed” onto the sensor." This is what I've read too. Camera manufacturers make the final decision which technology to include/enable or not in their cameras even when using the same base sensor.  

Edited January 13 by LBJ2

[helged]

28 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Also, let's not forget that the S5ii sensor is considered to be one of the best available video sensors in terms of IQ. Its only slight disadvantage is read speed, where it's not the absolute fastest, but very adequate in 99% of use cases. Frankly, if they just manage to overclock it while keeping power consumption (=heat) in the same range they'll be at the bleeding edge of what's on the market right now. It would be neat if they could release a global shutter sensor with the same performance, but the one GS sensor on the market right now isn't as good. Also, most high-end cinema cameras don't use global shutter.

We'll find-out all of the juicy details in a few days of course.

And to 'complicate' matter, Panasonic is coming with two bodies in a few months time, one orienter towards still and the other towards video (based on my understanding, that is). One of these bodies can/will be similar-ish to SL3-S, I recon.

For me, if SL3-S isn't that much improved compared to SL3 re AFc, fps and sensor readout time, one of the Lumix-bodies is a candidate. 

Edited January 13 by helged

[BernardC]

3 minutes ago, helged said:

And to 'complicate' matter, Panasonic is coming with two bodies in a few months time, one orienter towards still and the other towards video. At least based on my understanding.

Yes, and we know that either Leica or Panasonic could be first with a particular generation of cameras. Panasonic released the phase-detect S5ii 24MP sensor first, and Leica released the SL3 60MP first. That order makes sense given their respective market position. Now it looks like both Leica and Lumix will release new video-forward cameras within days of each other (Pana will probably wait for the CP+ show in February), and then we'll see the Lumix high-megapixel camera in the spring.

That should pause the "next model speculation" threads in the SL forum for a while, but they'll be going strong in the M and S forums. Plus there's still some speculation about a smaller L-mount body from Leica.

[helged]

SL3-S spec, including

• New high-speed AF system
• AF continuous shooting at up to 30 frames/sec. in AF-C mode 😯

 https://leicarumors.com/2025/01/13/here-are-the-leica-sl3-s-camera-specifications.aspx/

30 fps in AF-C mode is likely with electronic shutter, as for S5II (see attached screen dump from the Panasonic site). If the S5II-sensor is used, we can expect 7-ish fps with the mechanical shutter and a sensor write out time of 20-some ms. 

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Edited January 13 by helged

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[phojomatic]

Also sort of interesting is that this camera is rumored to have Content Authenticity (no word if chip or software based). Only the M11-P has that right now.

If that's true, I suppose the SL3-s could shoot CAI video, and I think that would be an industry first. It would be weird if you could only shoot CAI photos, but not video, on a video-centric camera.