Leica SL3-S Incoming?

[tomasis7]

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Would be cool if SL3S is built on S1H-II.

S1H mk1 is still fetching high prices today.

[JohnathanLovm]

Am I too naive for hoping SL3-S is using Sony’s global shutter sensor?

[BernardC]

16 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Am I too naive for hoping SL3-S is using Sony’s global shutter sensor?

I doubt it will happen until Sony's technology improves. The reviews I saw mentioned that it was very fast, but at the cost of image quality (low DR). It's an acceptable compromise for a sports camera, but that's not Leica's market. 

[Matvertiser]

Am 13.10.2024 um 06:36 schrieb JohnathanLovm:

Am I too naive for hoping SL3-S is using Sony’s global shutter sensor?

The rolling shutter issues can also be adressed with faster readout speeds. This requires a faster processor. Such as the Meastro IV, which should be a considerable upgrade to the Meastro III. If you pair that with the (excellent) 24 MP sensor, that should do the trick.

[jaapv]

On 10/13/2024 at 6:36 AM, JohnathanLovm said:

Am I too naive for hoping SL3-S is using Sony’s global shutter sensor?

Not very likely as Leica and Panasonic developed the S5ii sensor in cooperation. But, who knows?

[costa43]

In my opinion, this is almost certainly going to be the s5ii sensor tweaked in an SL3 body. I would expect this to be Leica's best autofocusing camera by a fair way at release. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by costa43

[Olaf_ZG]

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The only thing which would make me trade in both SL2’s is that the flipscreen can be used in portrait mode. But I guess that won’t be coming…

[costa43]

Just now, Olaf_ZG said:

The only thing which would make me trade in both SL2’s is that the flipscreen can be used in portrait mode. But I guess that won’t be coming…

It is such an underrated feature, especially for portraits. I loved it on my old Fuji body. I too would be interested in this should it be introduced but Leica will likely go down the route of predictability and cost saving and give us what we already have..

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

In my opinion, this is almost certainly going to be the s5ii sensor tweaked in an SL3 body. I would expect this to be Leica's best autofocusing camera by a fair way at release. 

And  a pretty good sensor too 😀 tweak the microlenses, Leica-specified Bayer filter and it would be an excellent choice for Leica. Nobody needs more than 24 MP in an SL-S camera. The only reason to have more would be marketing.  

[LocalHero1953]

What's the read-out time for the S5ii?

2 hours ago, Matvertiser said:

The rolling shutter issues can also be adressed with faster readout speeds. This requires a faster processor. Such as the Meastro IV, which should be a considerable upgrade to the Meastro III. If you pair that with the (excellent) 24 MP sensor, that should do the trick.

My understanding was that it was the sensor that determined the read-out time, not the processor. Am I wrong?

[padam]

28 minutes ago, jaapv said:

And  a pretty good sensor too 😀 tweak the microlenses, Leica-specified Bayer filter and it would be an excellent choice for Leica. Nobody needs more than 24 MP in an SL-S camera. The only reason to have more would be marketing.  

24MP has never been the problem. In the meantime however, Canon has evolved like 3 generations.
Started with a 20MP from the DSLR days (2016, revised in 2020) then 24MP stacked and non-stacked (2021, 2022), and now the R1 has an even better stacked sensor (2024), making it possible to leave an older stacked sensor in an R6 Mark III, which will have all the features an SL3-S should be having in 2025.
Of course Canon can play with their models and sensors however they want, while Leica and Panasonic are tied to whatever it is provided, and Sony seems to be limiting stacked and global shutter sensors to their two flagships as of now.
While the Z6 III has a partially stacked sensor, it does not seem to be the ultimate solution either.

[jaapv]

Panasonic participates in a number of chip fabs., Leica has used "unknown" sensor makers in the past to produce dedicated sensors (for instance M240) . S series Panasonic cameras also use non-Sony etc. sensors AFAIK.In the end, it is irrelevant who makes the sensor, it will always be to specification. They all use the same lithography machines by ASML anyway.

 

 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

And  a pretty good sensor too 😀 tweak the microlenses, Leica-specified Bayer filter and it would be an excellent choice for Leica. Nobody needs more than 24 MP in an SL-S camera. The only reason to have more would be marketing.  

for amateurs 24mp is good, but for many professional applications, it is not good enough.

[jaapv]

10 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

for amateurs 24mp is good, but for many professional applications, it is not good enough.

That is why the SL3 exists. SL2S is plenty for most applications, low light and and Video,  SL3 for some(!) professional uses. - but by no means all.

[hellobrandonscott]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

for amateurs 24mp is good, but for many professional applications, it is not good enough.

I disagree. I'm as professional as it gets and 24mp is my preference. Not only do I save a ton on storage costs, but 24mp is more than adequate for archival purposes for the client, and at the end of the day, the better low light and inherent flexibility at 24mp sensor provides makes a ton of sense for professional workflows. 

[SrMi]

On 10/12/2024 at 9:36 PM, JohnathanLovm said:

Am I too naive for hoping SL3-S is using Sony’s global shutter sensor?

Why not use a stacked sensor instead of a global shutter? A stacked sensor would suit a camera like SL2-S (readout as fast as the mechanical shutter).

 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

for amateurs 24mp is good, but for many professional applications, it is not good enough.

For amateurs, 60MP is good, but for many professional applications, it is not good enough ;-).

Of course, I am just kidding, but I am pretty sure that resolution is not a limit for professional applications. There are specific applications where one needs 150, 100, 60, or 24MP at least. It varies, though; in my book, the more MPs, the better.

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

And  a pretty good sensor too 😀 tweak the microlenses, Leica-specified Bayer filter and it would be an excellent choice for Leica. Nobody needs more than 24 MP in an SL-S camera. The only reason to have more would be marketing.  

I have occasionally seen too much aliasing in a 24MP sensor without an AA filter. Post-processing works better on higher MPs (NR, SDC, perspective transformations).

[simon_hsn]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Why not use a stacked sensor instead of a global shutter? A stacked sensor would suit a camera like SL2-S (readout as fast as the mechanical shutter).

 

Yes. I think a Stacked (=fast readout <10ms -> controlled Rolling shutter) BSI (Low light) sensor would be the best solution in my opinion. 
 

Currently the Canon R3 and the Sony A9II use such a sensor with 24 MP. 
 

If paired with a modern processor (Maestro IV), we could see good progress, e.g. 60p & 120p 4K no crop, internal ProRes & ProResRaw, etc.

 

The advantage of a stacked bsi sensor would be better low light (which we all appreciate about the SL2-S) as well as good enough sensor readout speed for video performance.
 

The question is whether Leica can source such as sensor. As the Sony A9iii moved on to a global shutter sensor, there might be a chance. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by simon_hsn

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[JohnathanLovm]

On 11/20/2024 at 12:33 AM, SrMi said:

Why not use a stacked sensor instead of a global shutter? A stacked sensor would suit a camera like SL2-S (readout as fast as the mechanical shutter).

 

Because I want flash sync all shutter without using large strobe light to tank HSS.