Leica M11-D Review by Jonathan Slack

[jonoslack]

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8 hours ago, M9reno said:

Great review, and good to see at the end a nice portrait of Stefan Daniel, whose influence inside Leica has been considerable.  In the absence of any better explanation, I have always thought "D" stands for Daniel in the name of this type of camera, since it was he (supposedly) who came up with the concept.  Maybe you have received inside confirmation of this, Jono, and your last image is giving the appropriate nod?

Hi There

I’d like to think so, but I don’t think it’s a not to Stefan - tragically I think someone did tell me where it came from, but it’s been lost in the mists of my dementia!

 

[IkarusJohn]

Interesting point about increased reliance on phone connection.  Leica stopped updating the M9 based Monochrom some time ago, which is fine.  It has been stable for some time. But, as the camera includes 6 bit lens recognition, my Monochrom doesn’t recognise the newer lenses.  Not a big deal, but it rather defeats the point of having the coding.

These M11 based cameras seem more exposed to ongoing electronic support.

Not so much my M-A …

Edited September 13, 2024 by IkarusJohn

[tom0511]

If there was a M-D-Mono I would be tempted

 

[Smudgerer]

35 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

That’s an interesting point about longevity (which I hadn’t thought aboout) - There was some talk about using the visoflex to address the M11 menu system (using the thumbwheel for select and confirm) in the end I didn’t think it was terribly important, but in the light of your comments I think it is important . . . The camera ought to be able to be operated without a phone!

Good thinking

best

Jono

Oh yes.......I'd happily spend the too many €€€€'s on a Visoflex II, ( which normally I'd never use on a M ), if it could be used on the M11-D to access settings and not to have to connect to an iPhone or iPad to do all that stuff, not review / playback though that would be "D" wrong wrong wrong.............I dislike the current universal addiction to have to carry a 'phone with 24/7 and in fact dumped my own use of them four years back now so I'd have to use my iPad Mini to do that job.

A "D" M should be independent of all and any outside such supportive accessories, like the film M's that it is trying to emulate.

I know some would want to use their 'phone / iPad connections to download or view images "in the field", but that's not me and it's not what the "D" versions are about in my view, I would as I did with the M10-D wait until I was back at base and download straight to the computer.

Edited September 13, 2024 by Smudgerer

[IkarusJohn]

I suppose the same comment about not needing to use a phone applies to the LCD.

I carry my phone with me all the time (do not disturb at night and in meetings) so I can answer telephone calls and texts.  I almost never use it with my M10-D as the connection can be a struggle and there’s nothing I need to do, other than remote shutter exposure.  It can be nice to review images with my partner over a coffee, but not entirely satisfactory.

[hdmesa]

I didn't think about how being reliant on the phone app to change menu settings could obsolete the M11-D at some point. That might be a deal killer for me if they don’t let us know they plan to add menu access via the Visoflex 2 at some point.

[HRJ]

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Agree, there should be another option for a dead phone etc.

Edited September 14, 2024 by HRJ

[SoarFM]

5 hours ago, jonoslack said:

The camera ought to be able to be operated without a phone!

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This!

[elmars]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Derbyshire Man:

The other issue I have is that it is very phone app dependent. I've been burnt in the past before when operating systems upgrade and manufacturers lose interest in keeping their apps working with the latest OS or apps simply break for a time. Clearly that makes the camera much more time expiring than those which are self contained.

During the beta phase, we discussed whether the iPhone dependency was a good thing. Even back then, I argued that it should be possible to control the camera completely without an iPhone and app, because there are probably many people who are interested in a displayless camera who also want to do without using the app. Unfortunately, Leica did not hear this.

[jonoslack]

9 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Oh yes.......I'd happily spend the too many €€€€'s on a Visoflex II, ( which normally I'd never use on a M ), if it could be used on the M11-D to access settings and not to have to connect to an iPhone or iPad to do all that stuff, not review / playback though that would be "D" wrong wrong wrong.............I dislike the current universal addiction to have to carry a 'phone with 24/7 and in fact dumped my own use of them four years back now so I'd have to use my iPad Mini to do that job.

A "D" M should be independent of all and any outside such supportive accessories, like the film M's that it is trying to emulate.

I know some would want to use their 'phone / iPad connections to download or view images "in the field", but that's not me and it's not what the "D" versions are about in my view, I would as I did with the M10-D wait until I was back at base and download straight to the computer.

 

7 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I didn't think about how being reliant on the phone app to change menu settings could obsolete the M11-D at some point. That might be a deal killer for me if they don’t let us know they plan to add menu access via the Visoflex 2 at some point.

 

6 hours ago, HRJ said:

Agree, there should be another option for a dead phone etc.

 

1 hour ago, elmars said:

During the beta phase, we discussed whether the iPhone dependency was a good thing. Even back then, I argued that it should be possible to control the camera completely without an iPhone and app, because there are probably many people who are interested in a displayless camera who also want to do without using the app. Unfortunately, Leica did not hear this.

Hi there

A couple of points. First I guess that this case is actually no different from the previous -D cameras where these things either could not be changed, or else could not be changed without a phone. 
If Fotos suddenly stopped working in the future the camera would still work, you would still be able to change all the photographic parameters, but you would no longer be able to change WB, shutter type etc. (which also needed the phone on the M10-D and couldn’t be changed on the M-D). 
I don’t see that is much of a problem with respect to a lost or broken or left behind phone (as long as you always have it set to capture DNG at least). 
On the other hand was with Elmar during the testing and I quite agree that it’s a missed opportunity and you should be able to access the same menus on the EVF and that it’s quite feasible to use the thumbwheel and function button for this. 
Now Leica seem to have sorted the freezing issue, they will have lots of time to do this in a firmware update! (At least I’m going to suggest it again!)
 

[Derbyshire Man]

Yes, there’s no sense of urgency about it, it would be years before it was an issue, maybe even a decade but it would be good to have it on the road map. 

Edited September 14, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[Viv]

9 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Oh yes.......I'd happily spend the too many €€€€'s on a Visoflex II, ( which normally I'd never use on a M ), if it could be used on the M11-D to access settings and not to have to connect to an iPhone or iPad to do all that stuff, not review / playback though that would be "D" wrong wrong wrong.............I dislike the current universal addiction to have to carry a 'phone with 24/7 and in fact dumped my own use of them four years back now so I'd have to use my iPad Mini to do that job.

A "D" M should be independent of all and any outside such supportive accessories, like the film M's that it is trying to emulate.

I know some would want to use their 'phone / iPad connections to download or view images "in the field", but that's not me and it's not what the "D" versions are about in my view, I would as I did with the M10-D wait until I was back at base and download straight to the computer.

That would bet my approach too.

[charlesphoto99]

IMO, a true 'D' model would come set up already and one would never have to use a phone, Visoflex or anything that wasn't available to the M6. Just have it set to DNG, single capture motor drive speed, and AWB, and good to go. Anything else can be done in post, just like the 'old days.' As it is, it seems like the D wants its retro cred, but with all the bells and whistles hobbled on, and that potentially leads to a compromised experience. 

But god what a beauty. Never in my cards financially, but happy for those people who can. 

[Smudgerer]

15 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I didn't think about how being reliant on the phone app to change menu settings could obsolete the M11-D at some point. That might be a deal killer for me if they don’t let us know they plan to add menu access via the Visoflex 2 at some point.

Absolutely with you on that..........My 'phone comments in my post #44 came from me being something of a rarity these days in not wanting to be wedded to an iPhone ever again, ( and it's really hard to do in practice now with so many of our daily life functions tied to one having such a device with you all the time ......... and not being a complete Luddite I do have a mobile 'phone but it's a so called "dumb" one, a PUNKT ), but of course most people are comfortable with all of what a smart 'phone can do for them and not to have an iPhone with them would be a little odd, either that or they've just lost the damn thing. So for pretty much everyone else to have a camera controlled by their 'phone is a real convenience, for me it's not, it's another unwanted distraction.

Back on subject, it would be more than great if people like Jono and Elmars who obviously do have Leica's "ear" more so than we the great unwashed could nudge Leica into a more simplistic camera, honing down the D's even more so that they are not reliant on any other devices at all to function.

But yes, all said, the M11D surely is a thing of beauty............

[hdmesa]

8 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi there

A couple of points. First I guess that this case is actually no different from the previous -D cameras where these things either could not be changed, or else could not be changed without a phone. 
If Fotos suddenly stopped working in the future the camera would still work, you would still be able to change all the photographic parameters, but you would no longer be able to change WB, shutter type etc. (which also needed the phone on the M10-D and couldn’t be changed on the M-D). 
I don’t see that is much of a problem with respect to a lost or broken or left behind phone (as long as you always have it set to capture DNG at least). 
On the other hand was with Elmar during the testing and I quite agree that it’s a missed opportunity and you should be able to access the same menus on the EVF and that it’s quite feasible to use the thumbwheel and function button for this. 
Now Leica seem to have sorted the freezing issue, they will have lots of time to do this in a firmware update! (At least I’m going to suggest it again!)
 

I appreciate your feedback to us and Leica both, thank you.

I need to read the M11-D manual to better understand the camera. It has been pointed out to me that it can be reset to factory defaults without using the app, and that makes me feel better about the camera's long-term sustainability, provided that the default settings are logical.

Being able to access the menus with the Visoflex 2 would be great, though. I love the idea that the full functionality of the camera would be available to me without my phone. Perhaps it shows my age, but I have never taken to connecting my camera to my phone or computer no matter how well that works.

[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I need to read the M11-D manual

In the meantime 

 

[jgeenen]

Am 13.9.2024 um 16:33 schrieb Jeff S:

Jeff

I guess, on the original MD variants (film bodies without viewfinder) the „D“ indicates the purpose as a document camera. And Leica has used this term for the display less Digital Leica just to reuse a historic camera name and point to Leica tradition. similar to Visoflex, which has no „flex“ reflex mirror inside in today‘s digital world.

 

[fenykepesz]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb jgeenen:

I guess, on the original MD variants (film bodies without viewfinder) the „D“ indicates the purpose as a document camera. And Leica has used this term for the display less Digital Leica just to reuse a historic camera name and point to Leica tradition. similar to Visoflex, which has no „flex“ reflex mirror inside in today‘s digital world.

 

'D' for : Documentary Photography...

[jgeenen]

At my university they used a Leica MD to document Ancient Greek coins - they made plaster casts of both sides, placed them under a Reprovit stand (which had a projection lamp to determine accurate focus and framing), slided in the MD loaded with B&W film and took a shot. They had thousands and thousands of samples in their archive found all over Greece. And no - I did not take the photos, I coded the database and indexing software to manage the archive… 

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Hallo,

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[jonoslack]

7 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

IMO, a true 'D' model would come set up already and one would never have to use a phone, Visoflex or anything that wasn't available to the M6. Just have it set to DNG, single capture motor drive speed, and AWB, and good to go. Anything else can be done in post, just like the 'old days.' As it is, it seems like the D wants its retro cred, but with all the bells and whistles hobbled on, and that potentially leads to a compromised experience. 

But god what a beauty. Never in my cards financially, but happy for those people who can. 

AWB is an aberration from the devil! More seriously I want control of my colour and I don’t want the camera deciding it - no problem with it deciding on the ISO or shutter speed (within reasonable parameters) but I DON’T WANT AUTO WHITE BALANCE! And I wouldn’t touch a camera which forced it - sure if you shoot DNG you can change it afterwards - but if you shoot 500 pictures that’s quite a task!

best

Jono