Leica IIIc

[RichardG]

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Can anyone shed any light on why this camera has a red shutter curtain, it was manufactured in 1941/42 so would this have any bearing on why it is red - wartime shotage of normal black material so utilise a different one?

I would be very interested if anyone knows why it is red.

Many thanks

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[romanus53]

You can read the story of the red curtain elsewhere, have a look at 

#7 , these "newer" red curtains showed up in the 1970ies in Italy. I would accept them as a repair/replacement if the original curtain of the camera was also red - otherwise it's fake/fraud.

[RichardG]

Thank you for the information romanus53, I was told a few years ago that these red curtains were a result of black material shortage during the war, so that is not true then.

[Anbaric]

14 minutes ago, RichardG said:

Thank you for the information romanus53, I was told a few years ago that these red curtains were a result of black material shortage during the war, so that is not true then.

Red curtains were indeed used in some wartime production, presumably because the usual material was not available. This would fit with the date of your camera. But there are also modern red curtains that might be installed in any camera, for whatever reason. Since factory red curtains, especially in good condition, tend to make a camera more collectable, a serious collector would want to verify whether or not the curtains were original.

[Pyrogallol]

I have a red blind 111c. The curtains are in such perfect order that I imagine they may have been replaced. I understand that original red ones ooze sticky rubber after 80 years.

[RichardG]

 

3 hours ago, Anbaric said:

a serious collector would want to verify whether or not the curtains were original

How would this be done Anbaric.

The red curtain is the closing blind, the opening curtain is black and its coating is begining to break down. perhaps it may be original?

[jerzy]

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Both must be red, however opening curtain is mounted rubber side to the front, there should be only small red stripe visible, approx 4-5mm, part that is wound around the metal bar. Cracks of rubber is some indication that they might be still original however to be quite sure the shutter shall be dismantled to observe for any sing of curtains being reglued. And my personal opinion - red is too perfect for being original. Original red curtains are from Kodak, bought by Leica around mid thirties, fabric is cotton I believe

[Bruiser52]

Most genuine red curtains look like this now with the rubber sealing oozing through. A perfect red curtain would surely be a replacement. Luckily all the shutter speeds still work on mine as the rubbery curtains can get too sticky to work properly.

 

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Edited November 5, 2024 by Bruiser52
Posted wrong photo!

[frame-it]

On 8/23/2024 at 3:56 AM, jerzy said:

fabric is cotton I believe

not silk?

[jerzy]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb frame-it:

not silk?

silk is more glossy, I believe it is cotton. Btw, modern replacement curtains are silk. As Bruiser52 wrote it is very hard to find original red curtains without black/white dots. And usually they are sticky, so the shutter does not work properly. I do not remember if I shown these picture before, how red curtans is biult compared to regular black. Red curtain has 2 3 layers - red fabric, white layer (rubber or similar) and black rubber. This is hown schematically on the left picture. Right picture shows how the black/white dots inprints the red fabric. In wast majority of cases I had the white and black rubber is sticky there where is it glued to the shutter drum, Very rarely I have seen damages to the black rubber on the part of the second curtain that is not glued. Although the reason why it comes to the damages of the curtain is not quite clear to me I believe that the glue used to fix curtains to the drum  goes through the fabric and reacts with the white rubber that in tur damages the black rubber.Therefore, if one has camera with non damaged, genuine red curtains it might be advisable to separate curtains, clean the glue and re-glue the again. Sill in 90-ties it was still possible to buy red curtains that were made of red fabric, what you can find now (from time to time) is regular black fabric painted red. Camera shown in #1 has either genuine red curtains (however they look to perfect) or replacement from 80-90ties. It does not look like it would be black fabric repainted

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[RichardG]

My red curtain on the IIIc at the start of this post is now showing signs of the rubber sealing coming through and effecting the wind-on, can anyone recommend a good repair specialist in uk?

 

many thanks

 

[wlaidlaw]

I bought a IIIc Stepper in the full knowledge that its red blinds were in a dreadful state with the black occulting material leaking through all over the place and fungus eaten holes in the blinds. Alan Starkie replaced them for me with new blinds that initially looked a bit too magenta in shade but which Alan assured me would fade to the correct brick red colour. He was absolutely correct plus the camera now works perfectly. I would love to buy a MOOLY-C for this camera as I have very arthritic hands that on a bad day are incapable of winding on. Unfortunately both the MOOLY-C motors I have bought turned out to be faulty and had to be returned. I have two regular MOOLY motors. A black one on my Model 3(F) and an early version two speed one on my IIIa. The black one is away at present for a CLA. 

Wilson

 

[wlaidlaw]

I believe the pre-war black shutter blind material that Leica used was made by the Ventile process and I think the sole manufacturer in Europe was based in Lancashire. For obvious reasons Leica was unable to source this after 1939. The Ventile factory stopped selling shutter material throughout the war as most of their production went for immersion suits for pilots and aircrew. Ventile is so closely woven that water cannot penetrate it due to surface tension but it is still breathable. I have a large green heavy sailcloth material Gladstone bag which is lined with two layers of Ventile and is labelled Swaine and Adeney waterproof luggage. The problem for air travel is that the bag alone weighs a ton, with all the leather trim and heavy brass fittings. Ideal for Phileas Fogg. 

Wilson

Edited Saturday at 05:40 PM by wlaidlaw