Autofocus Comparison Leica SL2(-S) vs. Leica SL3

[Cronilux]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Luke_Miller:

I find that with a subject moving towards me I need higher shutter speeds than I would expect.  That would be amplified at wide apertures.  Subject motion looks very much like missed focus in that situation.

Edited to add:

Apparently if in Continuous High the camera only focuses on the first shot.

Even with 1/4000th it’s still missing badly. 
I am on the 5 images per second setting. So it’s not the highest setting. I also don’t think you have a 80% in focus shots. 
 

I am a photographer for 18 years now. I don’t think there are any settings to improve the SL2-S. It’s simply not good at tracking anything. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by Cronilux

[Cronilux]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

Even with a steady subject in video it goes in and out of focus

SL2 8K Summicron SL Apo 35 AFC

Video is a different thing. I don’t care if it’s hunting in video. I only care for its accuracy while taking photos of moving subjects. 

[Luke_Miller]

1 hour ago, Cronilux said:

I don't think you have a 80% in focus shots.

I was surprised. I was not shooting in continuous. I maintained focus track and took single frames. 

In forum posts discussing the autofocus performance of the SL bodies I find some who find it terrible and others who can make it work. When I bought my used SL (Typ 601) I spent a lot of time learning its autofocus system since it was so different from that of my Nikons. Once I found out how to make it work in my shooting I added an SL2 and now there is an SL2-S on the way.

Sorry yours is not working for you. Mine work fine for wedding coming down the aisle shots and are usable for active children. My Leica L mount lenses are amazing, so I am happy with my SL bodies. Their autofocus is not competitive with that of my Z8, but I rarely need that capability. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by Luke_Miller

[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Should AFc be smart enough to realize the subject is staying at the same distance? Probably, but I would never shoot that scene in AFc on any camera. 

I was just testing the 8K, nothing special.

But my impression is that SL3 is still using contrast in AFc video mode and the hunting and going in and out of focus is the proof. Sadly.

And I think in photo mode it is hard to say if Phase detection is even used.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Cronilux said:

Even with 1/4000th it’s still missing badly. 
I am on the 5 images per second setting. So it’s not the highest setting. I also don’t think you have a 80% in focus shots. 
 

I am a photographer for 18 years now. I don’t think there are any settings to improve the SL2-S. It’s simply not good at tracking anything. 

I don't think there are earth-moving improvements in the SL3 AF. I think we will have to wait for the FW update and hope.

This was my main reason for getting this camera and to this day I don't think it has improved much.

I find myself trying to focus in dim light space and it hunts in and out until a few sec later it is in focus. it didn't even look so dark to my eyes.

I think you success in getting tracking to work is more dependent on the lens choices. I think the Summicron-APo lenses are not fast-focusing. the zooms may be quicker.
A 1.2 lens may be slow again.

But seeing the Sigma 50 1.5 on the Panasonic performance, is an indication of where the SL3 should be after the improvements.

 

 

[Cronilux]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Photoworks:

 

But seeing the Sigma 50 1.5 on the Panasonic performance, is an indication of where the SL3 should be after the improvements.

 

 

If the SL3 could get to this performance with an f1.2 lens, I’d be happy with it. The SL2-S just can’t do that. Not even the slightest bit. 

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I was just testing the 8K, nothing special.

But my impression is that SL3 is still using contrast in AFc video mode and the hunting and going in and out of focus is the proof. Sadly.

And I think in photo mode it is hard to say if Phase detection is even used.

The cameras always use Phase Detection and only fall back on Contrast if Phase fails. Pulsing is a sign that Phase wasn't able to lock on and defaulted to Contrast (versus Phase being used or not being used in certain modes).

59 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I don't think there are earth-moving improvements in the SL3 AF. I think we will have to wait for the FW update and hope.

This was my main reason for getting this camera and to this day I don't think it has improved much.

I find myself trying to focus in dim light space and it hunts in and out until a few sec later it is in focus. it didn't even look so dark to my eyes.

I think you success in getting tracking to work is more dependent on the lens choices. I think the Summicron-APo lenses are not fast-focusing. the zooms may be quicker.
A 1.2 lens may be slow again.

But seeing the Sigma 50 1.5 on the Panasonic performance, is an indication of where the SL3 should be after the improvements.

It should be the same PDAF hardware, so Leica just needs to catch up in firmware. Likely there is also a speed bump for the lower res LUMIX cameras since they don't have 60mp of data being processed.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Cronilux said:

You can easily do with any modern camera nowadays. AFs basically obsolete. Sony manages this absolutely perfectly.

AF is not obsolete (at least with the SL3), but the tracking is still not useful. But lot of us never use AF for tracking. If anything is obsolete, it's the lenses that don't have linear focusing motors in them, which I believe includes all current Leica SL lenses. It's not impossible for the old tech lenses to keep up with motion, but the faster the motion, the more likely the missed shots. For example, the Sigma 60-600 had blazing fast AF on my SL2-S. I'm assuming the rest of Sigma's new lenses with linear motors like the 24-70 2.8 II, 70-200 2.8 and 50 1.2 are just as fast.

Sony has nailed eye-AF and tracking for some time now. Canon also. Nikon and LUMIX eye-AF still misses the iris at f/1.2. Does that make them obsolete? If I were shooting events wide open, I would say yes and go with a Sony or Canon. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by hdmesa

[CptSlevin]

1 hour ago, Cronilux said:

If the SL3 could get to this performance with an f1.2 lens, I’d be happy with it. The SL2-S just can’t do that. Not even the slightest bit. 

I have SL2S and Sigma 50mm 1.2 and don't have a slightest problem shooting wide open with tracking of the model.
Maybe you have faulty version of the lens?

[Markey]

5 hours ago, Cronilux said:

Even with 1/4000th it’s still missing badly. 
I am on the 5 images per second setting. So it’s not the highest setting. I also don’t think you have a 80% in focus shots. 
 

I am a photographer for 18 years now. I don’t think there are any settings to improve the SL2-S. It’s simply not good at tracking anything. 

That`s been my experience too .

[Cronilux]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb CptSlevin:

I have SL2S and Sigma 50mm 1.2 and don't have a slightest problem shooting wide open with tracking of the model.
Maybe you have faulty version of the lens?

What are your exact autofocus settings? Which AF mode? Which AF-Profile etc? How many pictures per second?

I am not talking about tracking a subject and firing one shot. I talk about real tracking and taking several photos. Cause the camera loses focus pretty quickly after taking two shots in a row. 
 

I have the same issue with the 35mm Summicron, the 24/1.8 Panasonic, the 28-45/1.8 Sigma. So it’s highly unlikely a lens problem. 

Edited August 24, 2024 by Cronilux

[Cronilux]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

AF is not obsolete (at least with the SL3), but the tracking is still not useful.

See the tiny “s” behind the AF. It’s a focus mode. AFs vs. AFc. You don’t need any AFs on a Sony, cause it’s dead on with AFc every single time, even with static objects. 
You completely misunderstood my comment, cause you missed the little letter behind the AF. 
 

It’s just sad to see how unreliable the tracking on the SL2 models is, when someone wants to shoot more than one photo at once.

[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, Cronilux said:

See the tiny “s” behind the AF. It’s a focus mode. AFs vs. AFc. You don’t need any AFs on a Sony, cause it’s dead on with AFc every single time, even with static objects. 
You completely misunderstood my comment, cause you missed the little letter behind the AF. 
 

It’s just sad to see how unreliable the tracking on the SL2 models is, when someone wants to shoot more than one photo at once.

Not every scene is appropriate for AFc. You think we should remove AFs from all cameras and have to shoot landscape in AFc? 

Edited August 24, 2024 by hdmesa

[Cronilux]

vor einer Stunde schrieb hdmesa:

Not every scene is appropriate for AFc. You think we should remove AFs from all cameras and have to shoot landscape in AFc? 

I don´t know what´s so hard to understand, but yes Sony does that PERFECT and battery life doesn´t suffer from it.
Your sentence should be "Leica can´t handle static scenes with their AFc.", which I would agree to and just shows, that there needs to be a lot of improvement made.

[Markey]

I`d like to know why Panasonic (and I`m assuming the af system is Panasonic) lags behind the other manufacturers as regards their af system.

 

 

[Photoworks]

7 minutes ago, Markey said:

I`d like to know why Panasonic (and I`m assuming the af system is Panasonic) lags behind the other manufacturers as regards their af system.

 

 

It is possible that panasonic is "focusing" on something different! People like Panasonic for many reasons.

but it is Leica lagging behind Panasonic AF.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

You think we should remove AFs from all cameras and have to shoot landscape in AFc? 

why do you want eye tracking on a landscape anyway? 😎

[SrMi]

8 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

why do you want eye tracking on a landscape anyway? 😎

No camera is worth its salt unless it has train tracking 😜 (Olympus has it).

[Cronilux]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

It is possible that panasonic is "focusing" on something different! People like Panasonic for many reasons.

but it is Leica lagging behind Panasonic AF.

I see what you did there! 😂

They were pretty dominant in video, when there wasn’t Sony as a competitor. I don’t know why anyone chooses Panasonic nowadays. 

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[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Cronilux said:

I don´t know what´s so hard to understand, but yes Sony does that PERFECT and battery life doesn´t suffer from it....

I've never owned a Sony, lol. 

5 hours ago, Cronilux said:

..."Leica can´t handle static scenes with their AFc.", which I would agree to and just shows, that there needs to be a lot of improvement made.

Could be entirely true, but I'd never know as I don't use or need AFc.