Leica SL3 - My third Leica SL in a decade

[Photoworks]

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13 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thanks for the review. It’s interesting to me that you would characterize the change from SL to SL2 as incremental and the SL3 to SL3 as very significant. I found the opposite. The SL2 doubled the megapixels, added stabilization, improved the ergonomics and EVF quality. By contrast I found the changes the SL3 brought to be mostly insignificant or actually counterproductive (the new switch, the new transparent info overlay). I was very excited for the SL3 but it fell completely flat for me…

My needs are certainly not universal, however, but if anything I would characterize SL2 to SL3 as incremental and SL to SL2 as substantial. 

SL3

+ USB speed transfer 
+ tether Live View high-res
+ USB PD
+ tilt screen
+ AFc improved
+ BSI CMOS
+ CFExpress
+ All video resolution to card recording
+ Leica Looks LOL
+ ISO wheel
+ new icons (touch)
+ Beta firmware

+ Sensor cleaning shake

 

 

 

- L-Log green cast in blacks
- Lost support for anamorphic lenses
- The front button can add Waveform but does not remove it
- Audio meters are incorrect when using 2 mics
- Flash crashes camera
- Play sluggish
- ISO wheel implementation needs a lock
- Lost Favorite menu
- card management option too limited
- Video frame is cropped in all settings
- missing open gate
- Some icons on the screen have touch, while others do not.
- Lens firmware needs to be a prompt, not auto-update

- battery warning 


 

[SrMi]

40 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

SL3

+ USB speed transfer 
+ tether Live View high-res
+ USB PD
+ tilt screen
+ AFc improved
+ BSI CMOS
+ CFExpress
+ All video resolution to card recording
+ Leica Looks LOL
+ ISO wheel
+ new icons (touch)
+ Beta firmware

+ Sensor cleaning shake

 

 

 

- L-Log green cast in blacks
- Lost support for anamorphic lenses
- The front button can add Waveform but does not remove it
- Audio meters are incorrect when using 2 mics
- Flash crashes camera
- Play sluggish
- ISO wheel implementation needs a lock
- Lost Favorite menu
- card management option too limited
- Video frame is cropped in all settings
- missing open gate
- Some icons on the screen have touch, while others do not.
- Lens firmware needs to be a prompt, not auto-update

- battery warning 


 

My comments and additions on that list:

+ Reduced size and weight

+ New menu and UI remove the need for the Favorite menu.

+ Higher resolution

+ Multi-resolution output

- Unclear when the camera is off or in sleep mode.

- Readout speed is slower (electronic shutter)

- no multishot

The firmware is very stable; therefore, I would not call it beta. Your camera seems to have an issue independent of the current firmware status.

[BillCB]

17 hours ago, Kristian Dowling said:

The best lens Leica has ever made, period. Ive used the incredible M version as well, and the SL is clearly better. 

I use them interchangeably  - the M for light weight and walk-around and the L for serious stuff. I have to say I have difficulty telling them apart, image-wise.

Bill

[Jon Warwick]

49 minutes ago, BillCB said:

I use them interchangeably  - the M for light weight and walk-around and the L for serious stuff. I have to say I have difficulty telling them apart, image-wise.

Bill

Same view here re image quality, based on my thoughts after testing the M11 and M 35mm APO Summicron vs SL3 and SL APO (same scene, same print size etc). 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

15 hours ago, SrMi said:

My comments and additions on that list:

+ Reduced size and weight

+ New menu and UI remove the need for the Favorite menu.

+ Higher resolution

+ Multi-resolution output

- Unclear when the camera is off or in sleep mode.

- Readout speed is slower (electronic shutter)

- no multishot

The firmware is very stable; therefore, I would not call it beta. Your camera seems to have an issue independent of the current firmware status.

Well, The AFC menu does actually say *beta*. So it is. And in my opinion, so is the rest. Start up and wake up are very erratic in times. Basic stuff is missing. Only 11 items available in the new quick menu and three of those are already on other buttons. No programming of the rear click wheel. Basically useless new control dial unless you tripod shoot. Etc.

readout speed is a physical limitation of the sensor. If you didn't do your research then it's on you. Not a fault. I have spent the last 15 days with 90% electronic shutter with no issues. The real issue is the pig headed stubbornness of Leica to not have EFCS on all their digital cameras. Daft. Not the sensor read speed.

Gordon

[Photoworks]

Lens profile is buried in the menu and no quick menu option

Format card is 5 clicks deep unless you sacrifice one of the 8 items in the quick menu, and save it to Profile. 
for mussel memory, you have to save it to every profile.
Sadly, Format is in a different position in the  Photo/Video menu.

The benefit of the Favorite menu is that it can be established to the user's need and be available in every profile.

[SrMi]

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8 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

Lens profile is buried in the menu and no quick menu option

Format card is 5 clicks deep unless you sacrifice one of the 8 items in the quick menu, and save it to Profile. 
for mussel memory, you have to save it to every profile.
Sadly, Format is in a different position in the  Photo/Video menu.

The benefit of the Favorite menu is that it can be established to the user's need and be available in every profile.

You have some valid points. I wish I could turn stabilization on/off in the control center instead of going through the menu.

When testing the new UI, I was very critical of the omission of the Favorite menu. Now, the Favorite menu on older Leicas feels archaic. That said, I am often very good with changes if they do not get in my way.

My format card option is always in the control center, but I mostly use the quick "Delete All" option in the image review. I do not see any benefit of using Format instead of Delete All.

I do not have any video experience, so I refer to you and others for any critique.

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Well, The AFC menu does actually say *beta*. So it is.

I see only Animal Detection being "beta."

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And in my opinion, so is the rest. Start up and wake up are very erratic in times. Basic stuff is missing. Only 11 items available in the new quick menu and three of those are already on other buttons. No programming of the rear click wheel.

I consider focus bracketing "basic stuff," but I do not believe all Leica firmware should be called beta. In the context of post #21, I assume beta referred to stability, not to lack of features that were never implemented or how they were implemented.

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Basically useless new control dial unless you tripod shoot.

@Kristian Dowling comment on the third wheel:

"For me, this is the most exciting and game-changing enhancement on the SL3 body. "

I am warming up to it.

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

readout speed is a physical limitation of the sensor. If you didn't do your research then it's on you.

I read post #21 also as a comparison between SL2 and SL3. SL2 has the advantage of faster readout. The same is true for the differences in weight, size, and resolution.

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I have spent the last 15 days with 90% electronic shutter with no issues.

I have no issues using an electronic shutter on SL3 or even X2D as long as I consider the subject. However, a faster readout is always better. 

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

he real issue is the pig headed stubbornness of Leica to not have EFCS on all their digital cameras. Daft. Not the sensor read speed.

I was listing differences to SL2, and Leica does not implement EFCS in any of its cameras. I have filed a complaint with Leica about missing EFCS, but I have never heard any feedback. The lack of EFCS forces us to use electronic shutters in some situations to prevent image quality degradation. I wish @jonoslack and others with more influence would push Leica to add EFCS. It seems to me that Leica does not realize how essential EFCS is to create sharp images.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

...I have filed a complaint with Leica about missing EFCS, but I have never heard any feedback. The lack of EFCS forces us to use electronic shutters in some situations to prevent image quality degradation. I wish @jonoslack and others with more influence would push Leica to add EFCS. It seems to me that Leica does not realize how essential EFCS is to create sharp images.

All the more important given the SL3 shutter is louder than previous SL cameras.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Lens profile is buried in the menu and no quick menu option

Format card is 5 clicks deep unless you sacrifice one of the 8 items in the quick menu, and save it to Profile. 
for mussel memory, you have to save it to every profile.
Sadly, Format is in a different position in the  Photo/Video menu.

The benefit of the Favorite menu is that it can be established to the user's need and be available in every profile.

A huge upgrade to the profiles would be to allow copy/paste of all settings from one profile to another: set your basics in the first profile, copy it to all the rest one at a time, then go back to each profile and make the specific changes needed. It could even be more nuanced allowing copy/paste of individual settings: "copy this setting to X profile" or "copy this setting to all profiles".

[hdmesa]

Profiles could also be improved by allowing any of the profiles to be designated as a "Master Profile" with the ability to add sub-profiles under them. Anything changed in the Master Profile would propagate to the sub-profiles.

[jonoslack]

29 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

A huge upgrade to the profiles would be to allow copy/paste of all settings from one profile to another: set your basics in the first profile, copy it to all the rest one at a time, then go back to each profile and make the specific changes needed. It could even be more nuanced allowing copy/paste of individual settings: "copy this setting to X profile" or "copy this setting to all profiles".

Of course you can do that - it's certainly what I did!

Make your first profile up - load it and then save it as your second profile, modify it and save it to your third etc. 

 

[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Of course you can do that - it's certainly what I did!

Make your first profile up - load it and then save it as your second profile, modify it and save it to your third etc. 

Time for me to crack open the SL3 manual 🤪 Thanks!

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

All the more important given the SL3 shutter is louder than previous SL cameras.

I am more concerned about the shutter shock than the loudness of the shutter.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I am more concerned about the shutter shock than the loudness of the shutter.

I haven’t seen any at 100mm or below, have you? I’m sure that like the SL2/SL2-S, it will have some shutter shock at >400mm.

[SrMi]

28 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I haven’t seen any at 100mm or below, have you? I’m sure that like the SL2/SL2-S, it will have some shutter shock at >400mm.

Shutter shock blur occurs only with longer lenses and in specific shutter speed ranges. SL3 has much less shutter shock than other manufacturers.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Shutter shock blur occurs only with longer lenses and in specific shutter speed ranges. SL3 has much less shutter shock than other manufacturers.

Right, but other manufacturers have EFCS 🙃

[Kristian Dowling]

On 8/16/2024 at 9:32 PM, hdmesa said:

I've seen an improvement by changing the EVF refresh rate from 60 to 120 fps, which also makes viewing much more fluid and enjoyable to use in all situations. Not sure of the impact on battery life yet, if any. 

Loved the photos in your article. And the feeling of not being rushed really comes through in the writing. The shot of Mt. Fuji with the temple in the foreground was my favorite.

I don't see a lot of samples with the APOs that have more neutral processing like you used, which to my eye preserves the bokeh character of these lenses as intended by Leica.

That's a great point you make there. While I do add some colour grading at times, I am always cautious to not overstep, and ensure that the lens rendering is preserved. Otherwise all that investment is for nothing, and you may as well shoot on your phone ;-).