Ronazle Posted January 16 Share #181 Posted January 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 8/1/2024 at 6:31 PM, jdlaing said: ‘The Shadow knows. Yes, but he only tells his secretary and the bad guys!!!! regards, ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Hi Ronazle, Take a look here M240 battery. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Heathom Posted January 16 Share #182 Posted January 16 On 7/19/2024 at 3:31 PM, bocaburger said: I don't disagree but also I can't think of any other brand who supplies OEM batteries for their models as old as the M240. The difference is there are often 3rd-party equivalents available to keep those cameras going. In the case of Leica I would presume that demand is too low for a profitable quantity to be produced. But just kicking this around in my head. typically 3rd-party batteries are 50% or less the cost of OEM, and are sold through mass wholesale distribution to many end-resellers. So I wonder, would it be profitable for a 3rd-party manufacturer to produce a smaller-scale "run" of BP-SCL2 clones but directly for a single (or perhaps 1 US and 1 European) reseller, and to be sold at the OEM price (215USD presently)? Also, given that Leica has no interest in it anymore might they be amenable to donating the specs and any related IP, thus obviating the need for the 3rd-party mfr to R&D from scratch. Another possibility I wonder is if someone could produce a "smart" adapter that would accept an existing 3rd-party battery? Obvioiusly the adapted battery would need to be physically smaller than the BP-SCL-2 but that one is about double the capacity it needs to be, at least for everyone who rarely or never shoots video. Yet another possibility would be if someone could reburbish "dead" BP-SCL-2's in the way someone refurbished the DMR batteries back in the day. Lastly, I recently returned from a trip whereI shot 344 images using one battery from 2013 and it was still on 35% when I got home. LiION batteries supposedly lose a certain percentage of their full-charge capacity every year from the moment of manufacture, so if brand-new capacity is (I have read) up to 700 shots, then if 65% of this one is 344, its total capacity is still 530, meaning in 10 years it has lost only 25% or roughly 2.3%/year. The surplus capacity of the M240 batteries could be a real godsend for us. The M10-generation, when Leica discontinues its batteries, may not fare as well. Canon have been using the same basic battery in their 5d and 6d batteries for years and the newer versions for the R5 and R6 are backwards compatible . But with Leica it proves how overpriced their digital bodies are new , they will at some point become worthless bricks unlike their film counterparts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16 Share #183 Posted January 16 (edited) Re film counterparts. Reminds me of mercury-oxide cells for M5, CL, Leicaflex, Leicameter, etc. There have been alkaline substitutes for them. Should be even easier to substitute current Li-ion batteries with new Li-ion ones i guess. For now, there is no problem anyway, as long as M240 batteries are available as spare part. Edited January 16 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 16 Share #184 Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, lct said: Re film counterparts. Reminds me of mercury-oxide cells for M5, CL, Leicaflex, Leicameter, etc. There have been alkaline substitutes for them. Should be even easier to substitute current Li-ion batteries with new Li-ion ones i guess. For now, there is no problem anyway, as long as M240 batteries are available as spare part. I think the main issue, with regard to substitutes, is DRM. Without this, I'd imagine there would already be third party alternatives. That being said, I agree that as long as they are available, it is not a huge problem. The current shortage should eventually be filled and hopefully they will be more easily available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16 Share #185 Posted January 16 1 minute ago, m-d262 said: I think the main issue, with regard to substitutes, is DRM. Without this, I'd imagine there would already be third party alternatives. That being said, I agree that as long as they are available, it is not a huge problem. The current shortage should eventually be filled and hopefully they will be more easily available. Current batteries are made by Varta for Leica, so i'm not sure what DRM problems could arise, but i'm no expert on the subject. I'm not even sure there are shortages actually. There would be shortages if we ordered new batteries as spare part and Leica said they weren't available, which is not the case AFAIK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 16 Share #186 Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, lct said: Current batteries are made by Varta for Leica, so i'm not sure what DRM problems could arise, but i'm no expert on the subject. I'm not even sure there are shortages actually. There would be shortages if we ordered new batteries as spare part and Leica said they weren't available, which is not the case AFAIK. I would be very surprised if any of the major camera manufacturer also made their own batteries. This outsourcing does not prevent the manufacturer from having the supplier utilize DRM within the battery. While it could be possible for Varta to sidestep Leica, I'm sure that would result in some sort of legal repercussion. I don't want to get into semantics, but I would define shortage and unavailable differently. This is a direct quote from Leica USA in my recent conversation about these batteries, "These batteries are still being produced, but they are also in extremely high demand currently." That, to me, sounds like the definition of shortage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16 Share #187 Posted January 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) Fair enough but this so-called battery problem sounds like that to me 😉 YMMV 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 16 Share #188 Posted January 16 20 minutes ago, lct said: Fair enough but this so-called battery problem sounds like that to me 😉 YMMV How many batteries do you have? 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16 Share #189 Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, m-d262 said: How many batteries do you have? 😉 2 made in 2013 and 1 made in 2023. The 2 old batteries still work fine so i bought the 3rd one as a precaution only. the latter was packed in plastic foil, sold as spare part in 2024 for 170 EUR. FWIW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 16 Share #190 Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, lct said: 2 made in 2013 and 1 made in 2023. The 2 old batteries still work fine so i bought the 3rd one as a precaution only. the latter was packed in plastic foil, sold as spare part in 2024 for 170 EUR. FWIW. Right, which makes sense as to why this (hopefully) temporary shortage is absolutely nothing to you. On the other hand, you have people like myself that only very recently spent a fair bit on one of these camera and only have a single battery. Even having 1 more as a spare would reassure me and lead me to share your "nothing burger" attitude towards the situation. With that said, DRM in batteries does kind of push me the wrong way in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16 Share #191 Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, m-d262 said: [...] you have people like myself that only very recently spent a fair bit on one of these camera and only have a single battery. Even having 1 more as a spare would reassure me [...] You may wish to order it to your dealer then. They will order it as spare part to Leica. Spare part # 420-240.020-000 according to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 16 Share #192 Posted January 16 20 minutes ago, lct said: You may wish to order it to your dealer then. They will order it as spare part to Leica. Spare part # 420-240.020-000 according to Leica. Yup, I have an order in already, limit 1 per customer, at least a 6-8 week estimate although could be longer is what I was told. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 16 Share #193 Posted January 16 UK members: just because you've got yours (or believe it's no problem to get one) doesn't mean it's not an issue for others. I seriously don't trust Leica on this (and my daughter is named Leica, so I'm committed, one way or the other). Please stop trying to be apologists for everything they do wrong. I can't stand forced obsolescence, and the constant need to upgrade that the company and many of its adherents seem to buy into. Why would a dealer even take in used M10's at a certain point if no batteries are available? At the very least, Leica need to be forthright and honest about what's going on (i.e. batteries coming in a month, year, never again, only in certain markets etc). My US dealer (which has a Leica boutique section) hasn't seen spares in months, perhaps even a year or more at this point. Neither has the local official Leica Store. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrpete Posted January 16 Share #194 Posted January 16 Well you can forget a third party battery. Hi, I am sorry, there is no talk of producing this battery. It is a very expensive battery, and we just do not feel there is a big enough market such as that. Kind regards, Terry WASABI POWER / BLUE NOOK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted January 17 Share #195 Posted January 17 17 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said: Please stop trying to be apologists for everything they do wrong. Just trying to input a more balanced perspective. Not that the sky is falling in...or Leica are the evil empire. Red Dot Camera (London) didn't have an M11 battery in stock when I purchased my new M10 battery. I HIGHLY doubt Leica are discontinuing, or even limiting stock, of a new battery for a currently available camera. There is just some kind of supply chain blockage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YueIBM Posted January 18 Share #196 Posted January 18 Wow. I'm watching this space. If stock doesn't come back in a month or two I'm going to start engineering a replacement M240 battery. I used to be an EV battery and powertrain engineer and have a lot of contacts in manufacturing. It might not be all that profitable but at least our cameras won't become ewaste... and this is still going to be a lot easier than making new sensors for the M9 which I decided would be too risky. I have 3 Leica digitals and 2 films, and my friend has every single Leica ever made so I'm sure we can build it and hopefully not lose a lot of money. I might reach out on here to buy a couple of bad batteries if we can't find any bad ones in our boxes of cords and batteries. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrpete Posted January 18 Share #197 Posted January 18 I’ll take 2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 18 Share #198 Posted January 18 4 hours ago, YueIBM said: Wow. I'm watching this space. If stock doesn't come back in a month or two I'm going to start engineering a replacement M240 battery. How do you get around DRM? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrpete Posted January 18 Share #199 Posted January 18 What is DRM? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-d262 Posted January 18 Share #200 Posted January 18 46 minutes ago, Mrpete said: What is DRM? "Digital Rights Management" I am not an expert, but with regards to batteries, it essentially prevents or limits the use of third-party batteries. There is likely some sort of proprietary authentication handshake between the camera and battery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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