Why I gave up on the Leica SL3

[Smogg]

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8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Leica's problem, partly self-inflicted I guess, is their prices. There's a thread of bitterness running through many posts complaining, not just about the SL3 here, but all other newly released Leicas for the last decade. 'With all the money I have, why can't I buy perfection?'. Would we still have the bitterness if Leicas cost less than a Sony? I doubt it.

That's certainly one of the reasons, but we wouldn't be here at all if we didn't love Leica. Great love comes with high expectations.

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[LocalHero1953]

10 minutes ago, Smogg said:

That's certainly one of the reasons, but we wouldn't be here at all if we didn't love Leica. Great love comes with high expectations.

No love for Leica from me: I only love that which can love me back.

I prefer to buy a camera that does what I want it to - and I do the research to check that it can before I spend my money. The only Leica item I've ever been disappointed with was the 18mm TL lens. Otherwise I've been aware of the limitations of a camera or lens before handing over the money, and I've known that those limitations are insignificant for how I shoot.

Edited November 12, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Markey]

2 hours ago, Smogg said:

The conclusion that emerges from the above is that there is no point in complaining about the shortcomings of the SL3, it is a great camera, provided that you also have a Sony A7RV or A1. Thus, the Sony is a must-have accessory for the SL3, like a strap or a spare battery. This is worth considering in the price when making a purchase decision. 😉

Perhaps Leica should enter into a purchasing deal with Sony.

I can`t afford to have multiple cameras , I`ve had Sony and Canon but have shot Leica for over forty years .

I like the the brand 

When I bought an SL2s was disappointed how slow and inaccurate the AF was (equestrian shots).

I`m sure improved technique would improve the hit rate but don`t recall having to jump through those hoops with the other gear.

Try before you buy ? I don`t think any dealer is going to let me take a new SL camera out in the field in the conditions that I shoot in so you are left with your expectations ie that a company like Leica must at least be on par with their competitors in something as basic as auto focus.

I still use my SL2s but am never totally confident in its performance and actually revert at times to an M if the action is within range.

It is what it is and had I had the benefit of those able to compare performance between different makes I obviously would have made a different decision.

 

[Smogg]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

No love for Leica from me: I only love that which can love me back.

I prefer to buy a camera that does what I want it to - and I do the research to check that it can before I spend my money. The only Leica item I've ever been disappointed with was the 18mm TL lens. Otherwise I've been aware of the limitations of a camera or lens before handing over the money, and I've known that those limitations are insignificant for how I shoot.

It is not always possible to rent a camera for a week to evaluate it. Online reviews are almost always one-sided and interested in selling through links on their sites. Therefore, real user experience is very valuable and when reading reviews, I pay attention first of all to the negative aspects in order to evaluate how much I can ignore them. These reviews are more important to me than a lot of delights from a new purchase.

[Markey]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

No love for Leica from me: I only love that which can love me back.

I prefer to buy a camera that does what I want it to - and I do the research to check that it can before I spend my money. The only Leica item I've ever been disappointed with was the 18mm TL lens. Otherwise I've been aware of the limitations of a camera or lens before handing over the money, and I've known that those limitations are insignificant for how I shoot.

Totally agree and wish that I had followed that sound advice.

They say never assume and I assumed that Leica`s AF would be on par with other manufacturers .

My mistake.

In mitigation I would suggest that that fact was never made apparent in any reviews (at least that I was aware of ) and , apart from this board its difficult to find honest assessments of Leica gear.

They are either gushing or outright condemnatory.

Lesson learned.

 

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, Smogg said:

The conclusion that emerges from the above is that there is no point in complaining about the shortcomings of the SL3, it is a great camera, provided that you also have a Sony A7RV or A1. Thus, the Sony is a must-have accessory for the SL3, like a strap or a spare battery. This is worth considering in the price when making a purchase decision. 😉

Provided that your photographs include the things that your Sonys excel at. If not, or if you have the skill and inclination to get them anyway with the Leica your conclusion does not hold.
And - the Sony is a great camera, provided that you have a SL3 to go with it for the things that Leica excels at.

[jaapv]

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20 minutes ago, Markey said:

I still use my SL2s but am never totally confident in its performance and actually revert at times to an M if the action is within range.

For its excellent AF I suppose?

[Markey]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

For its excellent AF I suppose?

I`m 74 in five days but still have 20/20 so yes ... the RF system is fine.

My reactions on the other hand  ....well  😅

[Smogg]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Provided that your photographs include the things that your Sonys excel at. If not, or if you have the skill and inclination to get them anyway with the Leica your conclusion does not hold.
And - the Sony is a great camera, provided that you have a SL3 to go with it for the things that Leica excels at.

Following this logic, we need to buy all the cameras on the market, each one has something special. You are manipulating. Obviously, we are talking about how much the SL3 can serve as a universal camera

[jaapv]

Precisely - you emphasize my point. The universal camera does not exist. The Holy Grail has not yet been found, not even in Wetzlar.

 

[FrozenInTime]

Starting as a long time M user, I tried the SL2-S and really liked the image quality - confirming my view that 47 or 60 Mpixels are excessive to my needs.

However, the size of the L-mount lenses was more than I wanted and continuous autofocus was below par - I sold waiting to see what would come next.

Right now, I may have found my portability sweet spot with film Ms and M10M, complimented with a full set of very compact 'Leica' lenses on a blisteringly fast PDAF body : Lumix GH7 with Leica DG Elmarit zooms and Leica DG Summilux primes. 

[Smogg]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Precisely - you emphasize my point. The universal camera does not exist.

 

Again, misunderstanding or manipulation. I did not write that a universal camera exists, but only how far a specific camera is from a hypothetical universal one.

[LocalHero1953]

8 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Following this logic, we need to buy all the cameras on the market, each one has something special. You are manipulating. Obviously, we are talking about how much the SL3 can serve as a universal camera

Each one has something special, each one has its failings. You don't have to buy them all. Buy one where the special bits add to your photography and the failings are unimportant for it.

[Smogg]

8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Each one has something special, each one has its failings. You don't have to buy them all. Buy one where the special bits add to your photography and the failings are unimportant for it.

That's exactly what I do, but I also want to reduce the number of cameras if possible. This topic is about how much SL3 matches or falls short of its competitors in order to optimize the number of tools

Edited November 12, 2024 by Smogg

[Smogg]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Would you use this for heart surgery?

 

 

 

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Did you buy yourself a scalpel just in case?

[jaapv]

You responded to a deleted post; I'll repeat it.

Would you use it for heart surgery?

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[JTLeica]

3 minutes ago, Smogg said:

That's exactly what I do, but I also want to reduce the number of cameras if possible. This topic is about how much SL3 matches or falls short of its competitors in order to optimize the number of tools

But it doesnt fall short. Its falls short in just one way. In others it excels. I still cant understand how people are expecting one camera to be best at everything. Nothing in life is best at everything.

[LocalHero1953]

31 minutes ago, Smogg said:

It is not always possible to rent a camera for a week to evaluate it. Online reviews are almost always one-sided and interested in selling through links on their sites. Therefore, real user experience is very valuable and when reading reviews, I pay attention first of all to the negative aspects in order to evaluate how much I can ignore them. These reviews are more important to me than a lot of delights from a new purchase.

I don't have the opportunity to rent. Over the years, I have recognised those reviewers and users (in this forum and elsewhere) whose comments on pros and cons match my own experience. Before I bought my first digital Leica (M9) I read as many reviews as I could find. After buying it, I could easily tell whose reviews were either biased or picked things that were irrelevant to my shooting.

I have only ever bought three camera at or near launch: SL, CL and Blackmagic CC6K - I count myself fortunate that I was not disappointed, but it was a risk (though the BM is not at Leica prices). I have owned the SL and SL2-S, so I was aware of the AF performance of both of them; the reviews of the SL3 made it very clear - on my reading of them - that AF was not a big leap to match Sony (etc), despite the PD pixels: so I haven't bought it. And strangely, for fast moving subjects (stage performers), I get the shots that I want, in focus.

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[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Did you buy yourself a scalpel just in case?

No - I don't do heart surgery - so I buy the optimal tool for the job at hand. Which means that I don't complain about a hammer not being able to drive a screw.

[Smogg]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

No - I don't do heart surgery - so I buy the optimal tool for the job at hand. Which means that I don't complain about a hammer not being able to drive a screw.

I'm not complaining about the X2D having bad AF-C, because it doesn't have it. This hammer won't become a screwdriver. But the SL3 claims to have PDAF and AF-C, so it's logical to express my opinion as a user about how well it performs.