Official Leica Statement: Leica SL3 Issues

[jaapv]

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20 hours ago, Indeepthought said:

I think you have to remember Leica are a Premium brand. Years ago when Volvo had issues with their engines, they had mobile units that would change the customers  engine overnight for a modified unit..

Leica should be more receptive to customers issues and sorting them…

🍻

Well, I had a Volvo 745 Turbo R  with serious electronic problems and never got any special service. It fell to a Bosch service in Germany to finally diagnose the root cause ( after I had to be towed four times). 

[Indeepthought]

14 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well, I had a Volvo 745 Turbo R  with serious electronic problems and never got any special service. It fell to a Bosch service in Germany to finally diagnose the root cause ( after I had to be towed four times). 

I was referring to issues with the engine itself.. Your experiences were most unfortunate..🍷

[jaapv]

Actually they had forgotten to scrape the paint off an earth connection on the body. The intermittent contact would create peak currents that killed off the controlling unit of the injection causing an electronic chain reaction. I sold the car soon after as it remained quite unstable electronically. The garage owner I sold it to kept it for his own use as there were only a few hundred made, and told me later that he never got it running reliably. 
 

Sorry for the OT but it shows that you do not need to buy a Leica for this kind of experience. 

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Actually they had forgotten to scrape the paint off an earth connection on the body.

"Earth connection" = Ground connection :).

 

[IkarusJohn]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:33 AM, kiwidad said:

I think you are on the money. if not why do we ever need firmware updates. A product is tested to a point and out it goes. can testing cover every single process and such etc etc.. I doubt it. but hey at least Leica are responsive.

Well, still using my M9 based Monochrom, without the need for any upgrades, except of course that it doesn’t recognise the coding on either my 35 and 50 APO Summicrons.

It’s all very well “moving on” when new models are released, but when you have an electronic system, at lesat keep up to date with your own lenses …

[CharlesDL]

Hello,

Let me introduce myself—my name is Charles, I’m French, and I’ve been a professional photographer for 12 years. I’ve been working with Leica systems for about 4-5 years now, starting with the SL2 and Q2, and then moving on to the Q3 and SL3.

Am I the only one disappointed by Leica and their lack of responsiveness to professional feedback?

I’ve been requesting a firmware update since 2020. Yes, since 2020, I’ve been persistently contacting Leica: it’s unacceptable that a mirrorless camera (SL2, SL2-s, SL3) doesn’t protect the sensor with the shutter when changing lenses. I’m tired—tired of cleaning the sensor, explaining to clients what those spots are, and retouching them. It’s a camera that almost makes me lose money. This is a feature you find on competing mirrorless cameras costing just €1500. The M11 got this feature with the release of the M11-p through a simple firmware update. But Leica, after 5 years of emails from professionals, completely ignores it.

This lack of responsiveness is exhausting.

In the same vein, I can’t have the same settings on my Q3 and SL3. The Q3 doesn’t offer intermediate ISO levels. It’s impossible to set up both cameras the same way when shooting reportage. I’ve been writing to them since the release of the Q3 in June 2023 to get feedback on this issue, but I’ve received no response. It’s really exhausting. And these are just two examples among many others.

[jaapv]

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Welcome to the forum.

I think that it is not quite fair to blame Leica for configuring two cameras that are aimed at two completely different user groups differently. I do wonder why one would even need intermediate ISO levels in digital photography. There is a lot of leeway. Just set your SL to the same value as the Q3.
 

The shutter does not really protect the sensor- it is more fragile and will not really stop dust, that will fly anywhere as soon as it moves. Just keep your sensor clean, practice lens changing hygiene and postprocess your images before showing them to your clients. A good practice in any case.
The shutter has to be open to enable the EVF or LCD. Introducing extra movement for changing lenses only promotes wear and battery usage and solves nothing. In camera dust shake is far more effective. 
I'm not surprised that Leica does not accede to such requests. 

[Photoworks]

the real question is why the Q3 does not have this option. lol

Charles, as a professional I don't want the extra flapping around. The M11 got it in firmware and I have turned it off. Most of the dust is on the lenses anyway.

This option was never in the specs of the SL2 when you got it, why do you assume it is ever going to have it? 

The future of mirrorless is in any case an electronic fast shutter, what are you going to ask then?

[Planetwide]

2 hours ago, CharlesDL said:

Hello,

Let me introduce myself—my name is Charles, I’m French, and I’ve been a professional photographer for 12 years. I’ve been working with Leica systems for about 4-5 years now, starting with the SL2 and Q2, and then moving on to the Q3 and SL3.

Am I the only one disappointed by Leica and their lack of responsiveness to professional feedback?

I’ve been requesting a firmware update since 2020. Yes, since 2020, I’ve been persistently contacting Leica: it’s unacceptable that a mirrorless camera (SL2, SL2-s, SL3) doesn’t protect the sensor with the shutter when changing lenses. I’m tired—tired of cleaning the sensor, explaining to clients what those spots are, and retouching them. It’s a camera that almost makes me lose money. This is a feature you find on competing mirrorless cameras costing just €1500. The M11 got this feature with the release of the M11-p through a simple firmware update. But Leica, after 5 years of emails from professionals, completely ignores it.

This lack of responsiveness is exhausting.

In the same vein, I can’t have the same settings on my Q3 and SL3. The Q3 doesn’t offer intermediate ISO levels. It’s impossible to set up both cameras the same way when shooting reportage. I’ve been writing to them since the release of the Q3 in June 2023 to get feedback on this issue, but I’ve received no response. It’s really exhausting. And these are just two examples among many others.

100% agree about the shutter. My Canon's do it, and it's really helpful if you change lenses a lot like I do.

In all fairness to Leica, it might have to be powered while closed, hence the lack of response. 

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, CharlesDL said:

since 2020, I’ve been persistently contacting Leica: it’s unacceptable that a mirrorless camera (SL2, SL2-s, SL3) doesn’t protect the sensor with the shutter when changing lenses.

2 hours ago, CharlesDL said:

In the same vein, I can’t have the same settings on my Q3 and SL3. The Q3 doesn’t offer intermediate ISO levels.

I don't think that Leica is ignoring you. They've received your requests and decided not to act on them.

I doubt that the shutter would protect the sensor, and it would probably lead to more shutter replacements. If dust gets in when you change lenses, it will be there regardless of the position of the shutter. Some of it will end-up on the sensor.

Intermediate EI values have very little meaning with digital. It's just DNG metadata. Your files don't change if you tell the camera that you are shooting at 125 instead of 100, keeping the shutter and aperture constant. If anything, Leica should remove partial EV steps in the SL3, but maybe they feel that it's not worth the hassle. Modern digital cameras don't vary the gain levels for each EI, they just tell the processor to map middle grey to a different value. They only switch gain levels at one point in the EI, which is documented in your manual. Things were different with 1st-gen digicams, but that was a long time ago.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

If a system doesn't have the functions, I *need* at the time of purchase I just don't buy it. I can only assume that, unless the actual manufacturer releases an official statement, that the current feature set is final. IO find it interesting that anyone would just think that features will be added, unless they are actually announced.

Gordon

[SrMi]

9 hours ago, CharlesDL said:

Hello,

Let me introduce myself—my name is Charles, I’m French, and I’ve been a professional photographer for 12 years. I’ve been working with Leica systems for about 4-5 years now, starting with the SL2 and Q2, and then moving on to the Q3 and SL3.

Am I the only one disappointed by Leica and their lack of responsiveness to professional feedback?

I’ve been requesting a firmware update since 2020. Yes, since 2020, I’ve been persistently contacting Leica: it’s unacceptable that a mirrorless camera (SL2, SL2-s, SL3) doesn’t protect the sensor with the shutter when changing lenses. I’m tired—tired of cleaning the sensor, explaining to clients what those spots are, and retouching them. It’s a camera that almost makes me lose money. This is a feature you find on competing mirrorless cameras costing just €1500. The M11 got this feature with the release of the M11-p through a simple firmware update. But Leica, after 5 years of emails from professionals, completely ignores it.

This lack of responsiveness is exhausting.

In the same vein, I can’t have the same settings on my Q3 and SL3. The Q3 doesn’t offer intermediate ISO levels. It’s impossible to set up both cameras the same way when shooting reportage. I’ve been writing to them since the release of the Q3 in June 2023 to get feedback on this issue, but I’ve received no response. It’s really exhausting. And these are just two examples among many others.

Where did you send the requests? I assume all requests are being read and filed, but very few are acted upon because Leica rejects most of them (keeping everything simple).

I have not seen less dust on cameras that close the shutter when changing lenses. Maybe Leica agrees with me. Others seem to have a different experience, but I see it more as a PR issue. Many mirrorless cameras do not close the shutter when changing the lenses. It is an illusion that a closed shutter will prevent all dust from getting on the sensor (much of it lives in the lens chamber).

SL3 and Q3 are different cameras, c'est tout.

[hdmesa]

35 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Where did you send the requests? I assume all requests are being read and filed, but very few are acted upon because Leica rejects most of them (keeping everything simple).

I have not seen less dust on cameras that close the shutter when changing lenses. Maybe Leica agrees with me. Others seem to have a different experience, but I see it more as a PR issue. Many mirrorless cameras do not close the shutter when changing the lenses. It is an illusion that a closed shutter will prevent all dust from getting on the sensor (much of it lives in the lens chamber).

SL3 and Q3 are different cameras, c'est tout.

I'm surprised the SL2 and SL3 don't have the sensor shake function that can help keep dust off the sensor. Other manufacturers have this as part of the IBIS system, and it can be activated manually or set to be performed automatically at every power off cycle. I wonder if it could be activated in firmware or if such functionality is not possible with the SL3 IBIS hardware.

The closed shutter does help if you have to change lenses in a less than friendly environment, something that would align with the SL's all-weather design. It doesn't keep out everything, but changing a lens in a windy environment is guaranteed to get visible dust on the sensor without it.

[Jonathan Levin]

54 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I'm surprised the SL2 and SL3 don't have the sensor shake function that can help keep dust off the sensor. Other manufacturers have this as part of the IBIS system, and it can be activated manually or set to be performed automatically at every power off cycle. I wonder if it could be activated in firmware or if such functionality is not possible with the SL3 IBIS hardware.

The closed shutter does help if you have to change lenses in a less than friendly environment, something that would align with the SL's all-weather design. It doesn't keep out everything, but changing a lens in a windy environment is guaranteed to get visible dust on the sensor without it.

The SL3 has this function

[Virob]

43 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I'm surprised the SL2 and SL3 don't have the sensor shake function that can help keep dust off the sensor. Other manufacturers have this as part of the IBIS system, and it can be activated manually or set to be performed automatically at every power off cycle. I wonder if it could be activated in firmware or if such functionality is not possible with the SL3 IBIS hardware.

The closed shutter does help if you have to change lenses in a less than friendly environment, something that would align with the SL's all-weather design. It doesn't keep out everything, but changing a lens in a windy environment is guaranteed to get visible dust on the sensor without it.

The SL3 has the sensor shake feature, the SL2 does not. I found this function to work very well with Olympus cameras, and missed it with the SL2, I don’t have the SL3. Regular use of a blower with the SL2 mostly solves the dust problem. It is only when some residue gets on the sensor that it requires cleaning. I assume these a moisture droplets with impurities in them and are easy enough to clean off the sensor. I would think it would be much harder to clean that stuff off a shutter than a sensor, so would rather not have the shutter closed.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

I'm surprised the SL2 and SL3 don't have the sensor shake function that can help keep dust off the sensor. Other manufacturers have this as part of the IBIS system, and it can be activated manually or set to be performed automatically at every power off cycle. I wonder if it could be activated in firmware or if such functionality is not possible with the SL3 IBIS hardware.

The closed shutter does help if you have to change lenses in a less than friendly environment, something that would align with the SL's all-weather design. It doesn't keep out everything, but changing a lens in a windy environment is guaranteed to get visible dust on the sensor without it.

As mentioned, SL3 has the sensor shake but not the "wimpy" tickling ultrasonic sensor shake that most cameras use. Instead, when SL3's sensor shakes, your tooth fillings may fall out. 😆

When you close the shutter to change the lens, and the dust makes its way to the closed shutter instead of the sensor, what happens to that dust? Eventually, it will land on the sensor. The worst dust collector I ever had was a Canon 5D. The flipping mirror was probably whirling all the dust particles that collected in the chamber, and even though the sensor was exposed only briefly, the dust found its way.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

As mentioned, SL3 has the sensor shake but not the "wimpy" tickling ultrasonic sensor shake that most cameras use. Instead, when SL3's sensor shakes, your tooth fillings may fall out. 😆

When you close the shutter to change the lens, and the dust makes its way to the closed shutter instead of the sensor, what happens to that dust? Eventually, it will land on the sensor. The worst dust collector I ever had was a Canon 5D. The flipping mirror was probably whirling all the dust particles that collected in the chamber, and even though the sensor was exposed only briefly, the dust found its way.

Thanks to all who pointed out this feature exists on the SL3! I just got my SL3 today… it’s taking forever to charge because I keep watching it. 

[Planetwide]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

As mentioned, SL3 has the sensor shake but not the "wimpy" tickling ultrasonic sensor shake that most cameras use. Instead, when SL3's sensor shakes, your tooth fillings may fall out. 😆

When you close the shutter to change the lens, and the dust makes its way to the closed shutter instead of the sensor, what happens to that dust? Eventually, it will land on the sensor. The worst dust collector I ever had was a Canon 5D. The flipping mirror was probably whirling all the dust particles that collected in the chamber, and even though the sensor was exposed only briefly, the dust found its way.

Allowing dust to accumulate inside a camera is never a good idea.

As someone who has used both the Canon and the Leica, I can tell you that I clean the Leica sensor WAY more often. I would rather blow the dust off a closed shutter than clean a sensor. This is a simply great idea, and Leica should adopt it. 

When shooting, day after day, on the road, with numerous lens changes, dust just gets into the camera. In a 2-3 week trip involving 5000+ exposures, I will clean the Leica sensor at least 3-4 times, and still have dust spots in the images. The Canon maybe once...

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Thanks to all who pointed out this feature exists on the SL3! I just got my SL3 today… it’s taking forever to charge because I keep watching it. 

Congratulations on your new Leica! Enjoy it in good health.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Planetwide said:

Allowing dust to accumulate inside a camera is never a good idea.

Agreed. The only way to reduce the accumulation is to avoid changing lenses or quickly changing them in dust-free areas.

2 hours ago, Planetwide said:

As someone who has used both the Canon and the Leica, I can tell you that I clean the Leica sensor WAY more often.

Which Canon? In my experience, 5D was bad, and R5 was good.

2 hours ago, Planetwide said:

I would rather blow the dust off a closed shutter than clean a sensor.

Unlike on the sensor, the dust will not cling to the shutter (static electricity of the sensor). This means that the dust that lands on the shutter can roam inside a camera until it finds its way to the sensor. If you blow the dust off the sensor or the shutter, it may still stay inside the camera. I wonder if an electronic shutter works better against the dust buildup. Unlike mechanical shutter, the electronic shutter does not create air movements that could move the dust onto the sensor.

Barring controlled experiments, this topic seems more a matter of belief than facts. To stress, my opinion on this topic is also based only on an educated guess