Official Leica Statement: Leica SL3 Issues

[Indeepthought]

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47 minutes ago, algrove said:

We can go back and forth forever. 

IMHO, the ONLY reason Leica sent out emails about the SL3 problem is because they already have been sued by some pro or pros and the legal department advised it is better to nip this now in order to cut the potential for more losses from lawsuits by admitting the problem, what has caused the problem and how to avoid the problem.

It's just that their BS about working hard to fix the issue after 4 months of it being out there and issuing the statement during the summer holidays which can last 4 weeks for some, it is highly unlikely they will come out with a good fix until vacationeers are back at their usual 40% level. How sad is that.

Since 2010, I have bought every new camera in M, Q and SL2S and SL3 line, but I will no longer. There is something very wrong in Wetzlar when the buyer is the beta tester.

🍷

[CptSlevin]

5 hours ago, algrove said:

We can go back and forth forever. 

IMHO, the ONLY reason Leica sent out emails about the SL3 problem is because they already have been sued by some pro or pros and the legal department advised it is better to nip this now in order to cut the potential for more losses from lawsuits by admitting the problem, what has caused the problem and how to avoid the problem.

It's just that their BS about working hard to fix the issue after 4 months of it being out there and issuing the statement during the summer holidays which can last 4 weeks for some, it is highly unlikely they will come out with a good fix until vacationeers are back at their usual 40% level. How sad is that.

Since 2010, I have bought every new camera in M, Q and SL2S and SL3 line, but I will no longer. There is something very wrong in Wetzlar when the buyer is the beta tester.

100% agree with you.
They are losing their touch 

[nonoketchup]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

I am guessing the camera overwrites images because the file information had not been written before the power was removed. Next time the camera starts up, it does not know about the files. This could happen with any electronic device. 

My point is that the availability of "sleep" functionality has nothing to do with the issue discussed.

FYI - when I lost the images, I remember checking reviewing files on camera and thinking “oh that was cute” and “nice… I got it.” 

Others have reported the same, they saw the images there only to later find that they were gone. Strangely, most reports images were overwrite in ~one hour time blocks.

The camera both knows and does not know the images existed. 

 

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

I would never change the battery on a camera that is not turned off, as I would always assume that it may lose data. I would prefer it if the camera had safeguards that would not happen, but I would never risk it.

This is not about being a Leica fan, as I treat my non-Leica cameras similarly.

It did not happen to my Leica, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc cameras, either.

This has never happened to most SL3 owners because most change batteries rarely and when the camera is turned off.  I assume the problem is "solved" by checking whether the camera is turned off before replacing the battery.

 

I guess that the number of people that have never removed a drive or memory card from a computer without ejecting it first is close to zero. And there will be no problem 999 out of 1000 times. Yet there is always the warning message on our screens and data are lost, drives and cards corrupted every day. I admire anybody who can raise his hand and claim that he has never pulled an exhausted battery without switching off in the heat of the photographic moment.

[Simone_DF]

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

Do not unplug the product or remove the battery while the product is on or while images are being recorded or deleted. Forcibly cutting power in these circumstances could result in loss of data or in damage to product memory or internal circuitry.

 

That is just boilerplate legal text to cover their asses from being sued. Same as “cautios, hot coffee” written on coffee cups. 

[jaapv]

Still I don’t think it is very wise to ignore such a text. You’ll burn your mouth. 

[jonoslack]

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4 hours ago, nonoketchup said:

FYI - when I lost the images, I remember checking reviewing files on camera and thinking “oh that was cute” and “nice… I got it.” 

Others have reported the same, they saw the images there only to later find that they were gone. Strangely, most reports images were overwrite in ~one hour time blocks.

The camera both knows and does not know the images existed. 

 

Hi There 

This is quite straightforward - the images were absolutely there - viewable - on the cards (on both cards if you had one as backup to the other or one DNG one JPG).

 

All present and correct . . . . . . . . then you pull out the battery . . . . . .

If you had taken the cards out after pulling the battery the images would have been there to read on your computer as well

then you switch on the camera and carry on shooting. the images which were already there are overwritten - a timeline might be:

Switch on the camera

take pictures

0001

0002

0003

0004 

look at them

pull out the battery

turn on the camera and shoot 2 shots

0001 will be over written

0002 will be overwritten

0003 and 0004 will still be the same as they were.

The camera goes back to the number when it was last switched on and starts overwriting from there

If you turn off the camera at any point and then turn it on again it goes back to the correct place - so, in the above case - to carry on

Turn off camera

Turn on the camera and shoot 2 shots

0005

0006

So that

0001 and 0002 were overwritten

0003 and 0004 are still as they were (and unique)

0005 and 0006 are as they are

Of course I can't guarantee that is the case in every case, but I'm pretty certain it is.

I hope this clarifies! 

[Planetwide]

12 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Widely reported. I just didn't do my due diligence.

R7 Focus Problems: Canon EOS R Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

 

Canon's excuses are very lame. My least liked camera in a decade. R5 does this in the high speed modes as well, just no where near as often and not in lower speed modes. But I could have the R7 in single shot with eye detect on the eye, a basically stationary subject and just as you push the shutter it jumps off the subject. Hate that camera. My son was shooting with a XT-5 and his hit rate was noticeably better than the R7. This was his first serious photo trip.

I'd take a pair of SL3's over any Canon for my next wildlife trip. I like speed but I need accuracy.

K uses the R5 now and she's happy. Not a wildlife shooter. I did what I should have done and bought an A7R5 and A1. Night and day difference to the Canons.

Gordon

As with any camera, it's all about the set up, and I am sure that you know this.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, Planetwide said:

As with any camera, it's all about the set up, and I am sure that you know this.

 

Yes. But the camera still jumps off the subject for no reason, even with modified settings, Just less often as you lower the burst rate. A camera that says it’s in focus and then moves without user intervention is fatally flawed. I am sure my Sony’s don’t do anything like this. Turns out I really like the A1 so the end result was worth it anyway. I imagine the Z8/9 are even better but I’ll not use anything that’s not a high res stacked sensor again for things that move fast. 

Believe me I tried. I was 5000kms from a camera store and I wanted the camera to work. I tried as many settings as I could but a giraffe is not a small animal and the R7 in single shot would jump focus off it.

I have still got my R5 and I’ll use it with the fast primes and 28-70. It’s great there. It’s just there’s much better for wildlife and birds that Canon’s current offerings.

Gordon

[Dimas Photographer]

Well, problems in SW happens, but I wasn't expecting this. I respect the brand and the whole ecosystem, but this situation is unbearable. I'll wait another month before putting my order.

[Gavin G]

  It's actually happened to my SL2-S (Reporter version), i had submitted to support too. 

 

Edited July 12, 2024 by Gavin G

[2M6TTLs]

I think as long as you are using a digital product that has software or firmware there is always the potential for these kind of problems due to the complexity of the functions. I have certainly experienced significant problems with my Apple computers before. This is why I hesitate to put 100% trust in digital systems. When they work it's great but when something goes wrong it could be disastrous. Thank God I'm not shooting weddings with an SL3 right now. Having said that, I always switch my devices off before doing anything with the power supply just out of habit. I do prefer the physical switch on my SL2 for this reason. There's something reassuring about that little click.

[WvE]

Makes me wonder sometimes to just go back to analogue...

[jonoslack]

11 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Yes. But the camera still jumps off the subject for no reason, even with modified settings, Just less often as you lower the burst rate. A camera that says it’s in focus and then moves without user intervention is fatally flawed. I am sure my Sony’s don’t do anything like this. Turns out I really like the A1 so the end result was worth it anyway. I imagine the Z8/9 are even better but I’ll not use anything that’s not a high res stacked sensor again for things that move fast. 

 

I've been having great success with the new OM-1 mk ii - the bird recognition in particular is pretty miraculous . . . . mind you, I think it's probably got half your Sony A1 sensor inside!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

11 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I've been having great success with the new OM-1 mk ii - the bird recognition in particular is pretty miraculous . . . . mind you, I think it's probably got half your Sony A1 sensor inside!

Yes. Absolutely!. K still has her OM-1 (mk1). What a sensational little camera.  As you say a mini A1. But with much much better special functions and better IBIS. The high res shot and pre release are just astounding on that camera. Being an Aussie we’re getting the astro version of the EM1mk3 in Sept. It’ll be my first HA full spectrum camera. I really looking forward to it. I’ve not really done anything other than wide sky before so nebulae etc. should be a cool learning curve. They’ve modified the handheld high res mode to do 50MP stacked star shots from a tripod….

If I didn’t print at the sizes I do, I’d happily use m43 much more often. My older PenF still gets a run occasionally.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

17 hours ago, 2M6TTLs said:

I think as long as you are using a digital product that has software or firmware there is always the potential for these kind of problems due to the complexity of the functions. I have certainly experienced significant problems with my Apple computers before. This is why I hesitate to put 100% trust in digital systems. When they work it's great but when something goes wrong it could be disastrous. Thank God I'm not shooting weddings with an SL3 right now. Having said that, I always switch my devices off before doing anything with the power supply just out of habit. I do prefer the physical switch on my SL2 for this reason. There's something reassuring about that little click.

Don’t get me started on Mac OS Sonoma… I just upgraded my storage to some new spinning drives and have spent 4 DAYS sorting out read/write issues with Sonoma when it just decides it doesn’t like a drive anymore. There one boot. Won’t mount on the next. Had to pull out a windows machine to fix the issue!!

Mind you, I still don’t miss film. I did my time.

There is a now workaround for the SL3. I’ll be using mine for upcoming trips. But yes, it sucks for those wedding and event shooters who lost files before it was recognised. Losing files was always our greatest fear when we were shooting weddings. Mind you my shooting partner lost the rings, outside, in the dark once! I was shooting away and he was no where to be seen for two hours! When there was a break I went out back to find him on his knees on the lawn, in the dark, in a cold sweat trying to find both the brides rings by feel.  I did manage to find them (cool heads prevail and all that) but yes, losing things at weddings is bad….

Gordon

[algrove]

+1 for film, but digital is so much easier, faster, etc, etc. Analog is a good fallback. I now shoot it at least once a month just to keep my wet workflow in my mind since for me it is NOT like riding a bicycle.

I scan with my digital cameras though and transfer those immediately to my external RAID drives and then other external drives also kept off site. I probably have each image in 5-6 places on various external drives. Yes, it seems like overkill, but if you loose data then too many places do not exist where you have duplicated data.

[Planetwide]

16 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Mind you, I still don’t miss film. I did my time.

Gordon

Amen to that one!

[hansvons]

16 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Yes. Absolutely!. K still has her OM-1 (mk1). What a sensational little camera.  As you say a mini A1.

I've often shot with it using the brilliant 300mm prime and miraculous 1.4x extender for birds, butterflies, and anything that moves quickly. That kind of photography benefits dramatically from the lightweight, intuitive, handheld operation and AF that does what it promises. It can't get better for that kind of wildlife (that combo, BTW, is weather-sealed). Technically speaking, the keeper rate is at 85% and more. The downside is that you look like Daddy taking his little DSLR out on a hike. And, of course, it's much too cheap to be worth considering for proper wildlife shooters.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[tom0511]

I think the OMD is a cool system and I still own one, but friendly I believe the larger DOF, the higher noise is a compromise.

Lens size of course is great, and IMO the main (and only) reason to go m43 for such use.

If you wanted best AF I would rather use a Canon R3 or Sony A1 or Nikon Z8/Z9.