Shutter count

[hmarkweidman]

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Is there a relatively easy way to determine the shutter count on a Leica SL2?  Someone suggested ExifTool, which I downloaded and tried, but could not figure out.  It runs through Apple Terminal Utility.  Thanks for suggestions.

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[Anbaric]

ExifTool (or any other tool that looks at image metadata) won't work for the SL2 shutter count, as this number apparently isn't written to the image files. It has been claimed there is a secret service menu on the camera with this information that can be accessed via some arcane sequence of button presses.

[jaapv]

One reason is that shutter count is of little relevance. Shutters are rated for 150.000 to 300.000 actuations and failures are more likely catastrophic at any shutter count. 
Furthermore the presence of electronic shutter makes the number unreliable as a camera can have many thousands of actuations and only a few shutter movements. So Leica only allows shutter count for service reasons. 
To judge  a camera it is much more useful to assess the general condition. 

[Anbaric]

I doubt there's a technical reason why Leica couldn't write the mechanical and electronic shutter counts separately to the image metadata if they wanted to.

[jaapv]

Well, they don’t or won’t. It does not make much of a practical difference. 

[jdlaing]

Shutter count on a digital camera means nothing. I’d be more interested in how many times the camera was banged around in the bag or how many times the sensor cover glass was wet cleaned.

[jaapv]

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Or rather: how expertly the cover glass was cleaned. An inspection with a sensor loupe is a good idea. 

[Anbaric]

If you were offered two cosmetically similar cameras, one with 100,000 mechanical shutter cycles and another with 2,000, which would you buy? I've seen some very high mileage Nikon dSLRs on sale (where it's easy to determine the shutter count) that appeared to be in really nice condition...

Edited June 26, 2024 by Anbaric

[jaapv]

As I said in another thread I would buy the better maintained camera related to price. I have yet to see a shutter wear out under at least 500.000 actuations. Yes sometimes a shutter breaks, but that is virtually always due to a mechanical cause. A grain of sand, somebody poking his finger through or similar. In fact the rare cases of idiopathic shutter breakdown are normally under 20.000 clicks. 

[LocalHero1953]

5 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Shutter count on a digital camera means nothing. I’d be more interested in how many times the camera was banged around in the bag or how many times the sensor cover glass was wet cleaned.

Do I have to declare that under oath?

[Chaemono]

OpenAI just launched a new desktop app for macOS yesterday. By clicking on the paper clip icon next to the message window one can upload a photo. Maybe ChatGPT can figure out the shutter count. 

[jdlaing]

43 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Do I have to declare that under oath?

Out of the goodness of your heart.

[jdlaing]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

As I said in another thread I would buy the better maintained camera related to price. I have yet to see a shutter wear out under at least 500.000 actuations. Yes sometimes a shutter breaks, but that is virtually always due to a mechanical cause. A grain of sand, somebody poking his finger through or similar. In fact the rare cases of idiopathic shutter breakdown are normally under 20.000 clicks. 

Idiopathic. I like that.

[Anbaric]

76% of statistics are of course made up. I imagine you'd see some early shutter failures from production faults, but after that failures would accumulate over time due to wear and tear. There is a Shutter Life Database (no Leicas I'm afraid), but as the submissions are self selecting it isn't a random sample and the survival statistics the owner has calculated are pretty spurious. Most of the failures tend to be in the high tens to low hundreds of thousands of actuations range (but then so are the non-failures submitted for the same camera models).

Right now, one major dealer has several dozen copies of a popular semi-pro Nikon body with both condition grading and shutter counts listed. In the 'Excellent' category, some cosmetically similar bodies that look equally well-maintained have counts ranging from around 6k to nearly 300k. I know which I'd pick.

[T25UFO]

Leica Mayfair quote the shutter count for most cameras listed on the Classic Store so they have access to the 'hidden menu'.  There are a few threads on this forum asking the question, so it appears to be of interest.