Survey Improvement Leica M11 Firmware 2.1.1

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, Smogg said:

Everything worked like a good Swiss watch

Mine required manufacturer recommended service every 4 years, typically $1200+, and took up to 6 months each time.

Jeff

[Malabito]

So after praising the new firmware for over 3,000 images, my camera froze today. I also have something I've never had before: images upside down. Yes, I can rotate them in Lightroom, but this is not normal. All I can say is that if you plan to use your M11 for professional work, don't even think about it. Leica has some explaining to do.

I am okay with my m11 cause i use it for personal stuff, but for work.... it's unreliable and i dont trust it. 

 

How can I update my vote on the poll? Is it possible or i just vote again? 

[Malabito]

I really cant believe the number of affected users is a small one.... how can leica just remain quite and not come with some explaining about the issue....

 

Yes my camera works... but do i trust it? No.

[Gelatino]

No freeze, but one reverse picture from time to time on viewing, (easily corrected on LR), which never occured before  FW 2.0.2.

[jonoslack]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:54 PM, Malabito said:

I really cant believe the number of affected users is a small one.... how can leica just remain quite and not come with some explaining about the issue....

 

I sympathise - if they understood it properly then they would just fix it, and if they don't understand it properly how can they explain? Added to which, lots of people certainly aren't affected, so disturbing them isn't terribly constructive. . . . . . one thing I know for a fact is how hard they are working on this.

[elmars]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jonoslack:

one thing I know for a fact is how hard they are working on this.

That's right, I know that too. But that doesn't help those who have to rely on their camera not crashing (too often) unpredictably. For me, occasional freezes are not particularly bad, I notice them immediately and then I repeat the recording. But a street photographer can't do that. I suffer more from the occasional extreme overexposure, which I only notice at home on my computer.

[Malabito]

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4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I sympathise - if they understood it properly then they would just fix it, and if they don't understand it properly how can they explain? Added to which, lots of people certainly aren't affected, so disturbing them isn't terribly constructive. . . . . . one thing I know for a fact is how hard they are working on this.

As a customer you don't really care about how hard they are working.... you care about a fix. 2 years to stabilize the product and yet they still haven't achieved it entirely makes you very doubtful that they will ever do it.

I will continue using my m11 and enjoy shooting with it cause i use it mainly for personal things, but even though i rarely have issues, I wont be using it for anything professional, i just dont trust the camera.

 

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

That's right, I know that too. But that doesn't help those who have to rely on their camera not crashing (too often) unpredictably. For me, occasional freezes are not particularly bad, I notice them immediately and then I repeat the recording. But a street photographer can't do that. I suffer more from the occasional extreme overexposure, which I only notice at home on my computer.

 

Just now, Malabito said:

As a customer you don't really care about how hard they are working.... you care about a fix. 2 years to stabilize the product and yet they still haven't achieved it entirely makes you very doubtful that they will ever do it.

I will continue using my m11 and enjoy shooting with it cause i use it mainly for personal things, but even though i rarely have issues, I wont be using it for anything professional, i just dont trust the camera.

 

I'm sorry - I didn't for a second mean to belittle the issue, but I can see it might have read like that.

I think it's really bad, and now it's happening to me it's supremely irritating as well!. I just meant that I could see why Leica wouldn't want to go public with an explanation right now. 

All the  best

Jono

 

[Malabito]

2 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

 

I'm sorry - I didn't for a second mean to belittle the issue, but I can see it might have read like that.

I think it's really bad, and now it's happening to me it's supremely irritating as well!. I just meant that I could see why Leica wouldn't want to go public with an explanation right now. 

All the  best

Jono

 

HI Jono, dont worry i know what you meant,  i hope i didn't sound rude  Hopefully Leica will come with a fix someday.... 

[jonoslack]

5 minutes ago, Malabito said:

HI Jono, dont worry i know what you meant,  i hope i didn't sound rude  Hopefully Leica will come with a fix someday.... 

Not at all - I was worried that I had sounded like I though it was unimportant!

[geotrupede]

Is there anything we can do to help? for example could we have some form of sdk running to record camera internal actions to find where things go wrong? I would be happy to help.

the other thing, when coding with max msp one of the common workaround is to add a delay to the program so that event have the time to complete ahead of the next. to me it seems like in the M11 we have a similar situation, where the problem is quite hard to spot and the fix is to add delays. this explains that sometimes the book time is longer now, that the camera goes dead, then react after a little while. (this is not common but happens here)

Also, in my case new crashes happened lately, which are different than before, with live view and zoomed it. image froze.

BUT

to be totally honest,  all of this  is nothing common or major, I can use the camera fine and if it goes funny I can take in/out batter quickly so not an issue. I do street and indeed it is not great if there is an issue and a shot is missed, but I miss many because of me that one more is not a drama.  

G.

 

[Kim Dahl]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb jonoslack:

I sympathise - if they understood it properly then they would just fix it, and if they don't understand it properly how can they explain? Added to which, lots of people certainly aren't affected, so disturbing them isn't terribly constructive. . . . . . one thing I know for a fact is how hard they are working on this.

I understand Jono. But after such a long time - more than two years - with problems, they should announce something. I was hoping that the M11 would somehow be "my" upgrade from the MD 240. I really like the sensor and all the new things about the base plate (even though I'm an old man with a long Leica history) But an official deregistration - if they take the problem seriously - would be reasonable in this situation. All in all, Leica has a problem with them being closed in their communication. Seen in several situations. All the best, Kim.

[Smogg]

1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said:

I understand Jono. But after such a long time - more than two years - with problems, they should announce something. I was hoping that the M11 would somehow be "my" upgrade from the MD 240. I really like the sensor and all the new things about the base plate (even though I'm an old man with a long Leica history) But an official deregistration - if they take the problem seriously - would be reasonable in this situation. All in all, Leica has a problem with them being closed in their communication. Seen in several situations. All the best, Kim.

Any official statement may form the basis for the owner's demand for a refund and/or legal action. Therefore, camera manufacturers are forced to resist until the last minute.

[Smudgerer]

3 hours ago, geotrupede said:

 

the other thing, when coding with max msp one of the common workaround is to add a delay to the program so that event have the time to complete ahead of the next. to me it seems like in the M11 we have a similar situation, where the problem is quite hard to spot and the fix is to add delays. this explains that sometimes the book time is longer now, that the camera goes dead, then react after a little while. (this is not common but happens here)

 

 

This ever continuing two years + search for a "fix" of the software/firmware, ( perhaps even hardware? ), woes with the M11 variants is most likely the real reason for the delaying of the release of the M11-D that according to some reports/rumours Leica have the first batch already built packaged and stored away until these ongoing problems with the other M11's are resolved.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Smogg said:

Any official statement may form the basis for the owner's demand for a refund and/or legal action. Therefore, camera manufacturers are forced to resist until the last minute.

+1 but but i'm not sure what such a statement could say as far as Leica is concerned. That after several firmware updates, a minor percentage of M11 users (including me BTW) are still knowing freezes or other issues and that Leica goes on working on the problems? Unless such users are asking for a refund, which they don't apparently, the risk of a legal action sounds rather academical then.

[crons]

Would love to know the results of the survey so far. 

[michaelbrenner]

No freezing (so far) since I've updated to 2.1.1.  Today, I made 75 exposures at an early Fourth of July fireworks show on my M11, using 16000 ISO, 21/1.4, Auto shutter speed and various manual speeds 1/8-1/125.

[Malabito]

21 hours ago, crons said:

Would love to know the results of the survey so far. 

It's not going to happen unless the results show that most of the participants voted positively. I myself voted positively, but shortly after, I got a couple of freezes and upside-down images, which I was not having before. Sadly, I can't roll back my initial vote...

Edited June 30, 2024 by Malabito

[goodbokeh]

Is there yet a defined end date for the 2.1.1 firmware survey and publishing of the results? This firmware (or the next) will likely influence a M11-P purchase decision for me. I feel like time is starting to press. The way things look (politically) I'm expecting an additional 10% tariff on all imported products coming into the US sometime in 2025.

Adding to that, I recently read about a possible Leica EVF model design over on the LSI website. If a new Leica model similar to that LSI design came about it would conform with the Leica Rumors site regarding the M12. The LSI design is a very complicated machine, not what I expected for a EVF model. So more bugs in the offering...

https://leicasocietyinternational.org/blog/s9iaxooiojfjcevebmnk5x6ewhjykh

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[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

Is there yet a defined end date for the 2.1.1 firmware survey and publishing of the results? This firmware (or the next) will likely influence a M11-P purchase decision for me. I feel like time is starting to press. The way things look (politically) I'm expecting an additional 10% tariff on all imported products coming into the US sometime in 2025.

Adding to that, I recently read about a possible Leica EVF model design over on the LSI website. If a new Leica model similar to that LSI design came about it would conform with the Leica Rumors site regarding the M12. The LSI design is a very complicated machine, not what I expected for a EVF model. So more bugs in the offering...

https://leicasocietyinternational.org/blog/s9iaxooiojfjcevebmnk5x6ewhjykh

Why worry about what is undoubtedly not coming until the M12? (Second half of your post)

Regarding the M11-P, I don’t think that would be a good way to judge your decision. Think of how niche this forum is compared to all Leica users, then think about what percentage of us respond to something like us. You’d be better off asking your Leica dealer what their returns/complaints are like with the M11-P. If you can’t trust them to give you honest feedback about post-sales issues, I would buy your Leica from someone else.