Disappointment of Buying my first M11 for Father’s Day

[lct]

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18 minutes ago, marchyman said:

A boutique store might offer to check the product before I leave.

+1

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[RMF]

1 hour ago, bcaslis said:

I'm not sure what stores you buy from. I have never bought a camera, TV, etc.. where I unboxed it in store and the store wanted me to check it. And I've never seen anyone else do it. All the Leica other boxes are sealed and the one camera store in my area that sells Leica cameras do not open those boxes before selling it.

If you want to open a box before leaving a store that is your business but it is not the normal and I have never seen this happen (and I've bought a lot of cameras).

Yup, definitely the same here at my hometown Leica Boutique in Bellevue; you can check out the demo cameras/lenses as long as you like but when you decide to purchase a NIB one (with the wonderful white Leica sealed grey box that is unopened) it’s an unopened, uncut box.  After you purchase they would then ask you if you would like help in setting up the camera up. Not sure what happens at that point if the camera was defective but I’m assuming that they would give you a new one (if one was in stock). I personally would not buy a NIB camera/lens from the boutiques (any of them.. Bellevue, LA, NYC Meatpacking, etc..) if the white seal was already cut.

Edited June 19, 2024 by RMF

[lct]

Different behaviors here. I don't buy a camera or a lens as a Xmas gift but as a tool or instrument. I therefore expect the dealer to check the item carefully before delivery. YMMV.

[crons]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

I've never seen that happen.

Which one? Store checking or not checking?

[jaapv]

Boxes being checked. They may open a box to show a camera that they don’t have a demo of but then they will get a sealed box to take to the till. I suppose it depends on the shop -and on the customer 

[crons]

3 hours ago, bcaslis said:

I'm not sure what stores you buy from. I have never bought a camera, TV, etc.. where I unboxed it in store and the store wanted me to check it. And I've never seen anyone else do it. All the Leica other boxes are sealed and the one camera store in my area that sells Leica cameras do not open those boxes before selling it.

If you want to open a box before leaving a store that is your business but it is not the normal and I have never seen this happen (and I've bought a lot of cameras).

I guess you missed it but I posted a picture of me at the store just a couple of weeks ago. So if you've never seen it then check out the photo. 

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Thsts my Summicron. See all the open boxes and the sales guy and me testing it? That's what it looks like in case you've never seen it. 

Same place I bought my M10R nearly 3 years ago. Same thing. We unsealed the box and checked it. He was checking out the brassing. 

Like I said. I've never been to a store where they put a sealed box in a bag and you walk out of the store. Onviously you pay for it. But the stores at least where I live always help you check what you buy. 

Even light bulbs. They have a whole testing light bulbs corner at the home store here. It's called HomePro.  At the apple stores here. The reason it takes long is they sit down with you after the whole purchase and open everything. Make sure it's working. You check your device and answer questions. 

I just bought my Galaxy S24. Same thing at the Samsung store. There are tables where you sit and open your phone and turn it on and check it before you leave. 

Last thing I bought sealed and walked out with it are small things like a charger or an SD card. 

Assuming they don't do it where you live. What would possess you to wait until you're home to open what you bought? Especially a $10,000 camera? 

Anyway. It doesnt matter. Its up to you the buyer. Whether you've seen it or not. Let's do it as a brand new idea... Make sure everything is in working order while you're at the store. I can't believe I'm even saying it. 😀

Edited June 19, 2024 by crons

[crons]

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28 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Boxes being checked. They may open a box to show a camera that they don’t have a demo of but then they will get a sealed box to take to the till. I suppose it depends on the shop -and on the customer 

Usually it happens after payment. And if the item is DOA they'll go get you a new box. 

The payment is the easy part. The long part, and this is every camera store I've ever been to here, is the routine of checking things with the customer. But the same anywhere I buy electronic devices. The only place I've been to where you get a sealed box and walk out is dollar stores and maybe when I bought a blow dryer at a drug store. 

But even a blow dryer, when I bought it at the big mall after we went to the cashier the salesperson walked us back to the blow dryers and pulled out the power strip and opened the box and plugged in the hair dryer and made sure it worked. 

Another thing they always do here, unless you tell them not to, while you're testing things they put a screen protector on the camera. Which I always do anyway. (Even if they advertise it to be indestructible sapphire)  

Edited June 19, 2024 by crons

[250swb]

On 6/17/2024 at 6:37 PM, earleygallery said:

I guess there was nothing to stop the OP opening the box and checking the camera in the store either.

As said Leica customers can be very particular about wanting to be the first person to open the box, or not open it ever! If a dealer opens it first they probably have to sell it at a discount!

Or just advocate for reliable cameras. Why should anybody have to stand in the store 'testing' everything and a clearly unreasonable expectation. I've never tested a new Leica in store just as I've never tested a washing machine in store or learned anything by revving a car up in the showroom.

 

 

[Indeepthought]

10 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Or just advocate for reliable cameras. Why should anybody have to stand in the store 'testing' everything and a clearly unreasonable expectation. I've never tested a new Leica in store just as I've never tested a washing machine in store or learned anything by revving a car up in the showroom.

 

 

A car and a washing machine are completely different from an $11k+ New Leica camera. We all have different priorities and ideas, generally speaking apart from Harrods White Glove Service, having bought many new Leicas over the last 60years, in a store the action is:- Please open the box, let’s check the camera and confirm all accessories are intact..  If they don’t have a demo/charged battery available I would not consider the purchase.. At Leica prices, Service in all its aspects is premium… 🍷

Edited June 19, 2024 by Indeepthought

[crons]

21 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Or just advocate for reliable cameras. Why should anybody have to stand in the store 'testing' everything and a clearly unreasonable expectation. I've never tested a new Leica in store just as I've never tested a washing machine in store or learned anything by revving a car up in the showroom.

 

 

When I buy a washing machine at HomePro they schedule a time to deliver and install. When they come they test it at your house. Same with refrigerators. 

At the dealer, and I'm about to get a new car, they deliver the car to the dealer and it goes through an inspection. I can't just take the car when it comes to the dealer. I have to wait a few days. When I go pick it up I make sure things are as I ordered them. When picking up a new car you dont sit there and rev it. You should check (even after the mechanic dealer inspection)

Exterior 

1) Paint work

2) Tire condition

3) all lights 

4) mirrors and windows 

Interior

1) seats and upholstery 

2) test all the buttons

3) infotainment system

4) all cameras 

5) the seats that are electronic 

6) air conditioning and heating if it has it 

Mechanical 

1) take it for a short test drive with your sales person. Check acceleration, brakes, sensors, that it shifts smoothly

Documentation 

1) are all the documents in the car that are supposed to come with the car?

2) check the odometer and make sure it is a reasonable milage for a brand new vehicle

3) open the hood and do a quick visual inspection 

4) does it have all the kits and tools in the trunk that is supposed to have? 

5) accesories you ordered or additions to the car? Are they properly installed. 

Checking things when you buy them before you take off home is a normal thing everyone should do. 

But if you want to buy a Leica and Chuck it in the bag and take it home then go ahead. But then read the original post here before you disagree. 

Edited June 19, 2024 by crons

[crons]

5 minutes ago, Indeepthought said:

A car and a washing machine are completely different from an $11k+ New Leica camera. We all have different priorities and ideas, generally speaking apart from Harrods White Glove Service, having bought many new Leicas over the last 60years, in a store the action is:- Please open the box, let’s check the camera and confirm all accessories are intact..  If they don’t have a demo/charged battery available I would not consider the purchase.. At Leica prices, Service in all its aspects is premium… 🍷

Of course. It always happens. Even when I bought my $1,500 fujis..

[Avatar]

The refund policy is clear from Leica. I doubt any store would not take back a newly sold camera that is defective.

Although the OP's post reads well and sounds legit, it also reads like fiction.

[Avatar]

On 6/16/2024 at 11:24 PM, Indeepthought said:

Personally I would have demanded a full & immediate refund, or called the card company if I had used a card…

ya think?

The only thing that makes any sense whatsoever is that this is a camera that there is a waiting list for and the good doctor wants what he wants, which I understand. Other than that this is a silly non issue with no bearing on reality. We all know this. No one is buying a brand new camera that turns out to be defective and then get the run around. It's an impossibility when you add in the credit card aspect.

[Indeepthought]

8 minutes ago, Avatar said:

ya think?

The only thing that makes any sense whatsoever is that this is a camera that there is a waiting list for and the good doctor wants what he wants, which I understand. Other than that this is a silly non issue with no bearing on reality. We all know this. No one is buying a brand new camera that turns out to be defective and then get the run around. It's an impossibility when you add in the credit card aspect.

How so?

[Avatar]

7 minutes ago, Indeepthought said:

How so?

Well I assumed it was a hard to get camera but it's a Leica M11-P. It now makes much less sense and is absurd.

Edited June 20, 2024 by Avatar

[Indeepthought]

40 minutes ago, Avatar said:

Well I assumed it was a hard to get camera but it's a Leica M11-P. It now makes much less sense and is absurd.

🍻

[Avatar]

10 minutes ago, Indeepthought said:

🍻

Wait, let's go over the facts again...guy buys not a waiting list hard to get camera but a new M11-P that is defective out of the gate and can't get a new camera and or a refund.

April Fools!

[250swb]

9 hours ago, crons said:

When I buy a washing machine at HomePro they schedule a time to deliver and install. When they come they test it at your house. Same with refrigerators. 

At the dealer, and I'm about to get a new car, they deliver the car to the dealer and it goes through an inspection. I can't just take the car when it comes to the dealer. I have to wait a few days. When I go pick it up I make sure things are as I ordered them. When picking up a new car you dont sit there and rev it. You should check (even after the mechanic dealer inspection)

Exterior 

1) Paint work

2) Tire condition

3) all lights 

4) mirrors and windows 

Interior

1) seats and upholstery 

2) test all the buttons

3) infotainment system

4) all cameras 

5) the seats that are electronic 

6) air conditioning and heating if it has it 

Mechanical 

1) take it for a short test drive with your sales person. Check acceleration, brakes, sensors, that it shifts smoothly

Documentation 

1) are all the documents in the car that are supposed to come with the car?

2) check the odometer and make sure it is a reasonable milage for a brand new vehicle

3) open the hood and do a quick visual inspection 

4) does it have all the kits and tools in the trunk that is supposed to have? 

5) accesories you ordered or additions to the car? Are they properly installed. 

Checking things when you buy them before you take off home is a normal thing everyone should do. 

But if you want to buy a Leica and Chuck it in the bag and take it home then go ahead. But then read the original post here before you disagree. 

I should point out to you that new Leica equipment is (supposedly) tested in the factory so the dealer doesn't have to do it. Very, very few dealers have a technical workshop that can deal with anything more than minor adjustments. The OP was disappointed with Leica themselves and not the dealer and we should have no expectations of a dealer other than somebody who hands over the box or negotiates with the manufacturer. All your coulda, shoulda, and woulda can be circumvented if Leica only put cameras that work into the boxes.

Edited June 20, 2024 by 250swb

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[Indeepthought]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I should point out to you that new Leica equipment is (supposedly) tested in the factory so the dealer doesn't have to do it. Very, very few dealers have a technical workshop that can deal with anything more than minor adjustments. The OP was disappointed with Leica themselves and not the dealer and we should have no expectations of a dealer other than somebody who hands over the box or negotiates with the manufacturer. All your coulda, shoulda, and woulda can be circumvented if Leica only put cameras that work into the boxes.

Goes with out saying, reality in the world of Leica is somewhat different… 🥺

[Avatar]

Has anyone bought any high end expensive defective electronics from the get go and then didn't get their money back? and paid with a credit card i assume, not that it even matters

quick search

Federally, retailers must accept returns under two basic scenarios. First, federal law requires refunds if the product is defective.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2024 by Avatar