Should I buy the R9?

[sanadsaad]

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Hi all! I've just come across a mint R9 and even though I promised myself I won't buy any new cameras, I can't seem to walk away What gives me pause is the cost of the lenses! I mainly shoot 50mm but the only summiluxes I found we're £3000! I have an M6 with the 50mm summicron and love it for everyday photography. But holding an R9 in my hands has made things a bit tricky. Thought I'd post my dilemma here and see what you guys think. 

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[TomB_tx]

I added an R8 as it is similar but much cheaper used. Once I got used to the size, etc. I love it. I already had several suitable R lenses from back when they were pretty inexpensive. They aren't ROM enabled, but I don't miss that at all.

[sanadsaad]

So what lenses can go on the R8/9? ROM enabled means they'll meter and wont do it without?

[Helge]

You can use all R lenses, that work correctly on R (nor only on Leicaflex, SL or SL2), all so called 3 cam lenses.

I have an R9 and I use all lenses I used already on my R3.

ROM is IMHO not necessary for any of the R9 functions.

[masjah]

There are three categories of lenses which can be used on an R8/9, or indeed on R3-R7:

(i) 3 cam lenses

(ii) 3rd cam only (aka R cam only lenses)

(iii) ROM lenses

The R8 and R9 are the only cameras which can take advantage of the extra information provided by the ROM chip on ROM lenses. This tweaks the performance a little, and makes things more convenient with regard to zoom flashguns, as well as aperture display with zoom lenses and converters.

In your position I would choose to buy ROM lenses, for the following reasons:

(a) they will be newer

(b) they give worthwhile advantages when used via a Leica adapter on the SL2 or SL3, which will help to preserve their value into the future, even if you intend to use them only on a film camera. (For example, it is much more convenient to have focal length information transmitted to the camera rather than having to input manually every time a lens is changed. Furthermore, despite some claims to the contrary, information about the particular lens, not just the focal length is also passed on, and is used by these cameras.)

 

 

 

[sanadsaad]

You guys were supposed to talk me out of buying it 😂 Due to budget constraints, if I buy the R9, I'll only have £800-£1000 left for a lens. There's currently a leitz 50mm summilux (1972) and a 50mm summicron-R (1981) that fit in that budget. Would you guys suggest a good lens online within that budget to start with at 50mm and then add lenses later?

[spydrxx]

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Get it. A terrific camera. I had the R8, R3, Leicaflex SL2, and Leicaflex and several lenses. I loved their rendition. It took a few outings to get used to the design of the R8 (same as R9), but the rendition of the lenses was very pleasing to me. IMHO the most appealing lenses to me were the 50 Summicron (2nd version), the 35 Elmarit, and the 80-200 Vario-Elmar. Although I had several others (different focal lengths), I found myself coming back to these three most often.

[Helge]

Some very specific photo flashes are the only things that can take advantage of the focal length information (if transmitted). 
The “performance improvements” are:

- if the photo flash can do it, the built-in zoom adjusts to focal length

- the program automatic selects automatically different exposure times for different focal lengths in „fill flash“ mode

- if you are going to buy a Leica R DMR or a SL2/SL3 it transmits EXIF relevant data

From my point of view it doesn’t matter whether a lens has ROM or not. A lot of newer designs did exist as ROM and without.

@sanadsaad you can use all 3 cam lenses.

Edited June 7, 2024 by Helge

[TomB_tx]

9 minutes ago, sanadsaad said:

You guys were supposed to talk me out of buying it 😂 Due to budget constraints, if I buy the R9, I'll only have £800-£1000 left for a lens. There's currently a leitz 50mm summilux (1972) and a 50mm summicron-R (1981) that fit in that budget. Would you guys suggest a good lens online within that budget to start with at 50mm and then add lenses later?

I have both lenses of similar vintage. While the Summilux was as good as an f1.4 was of that vintage, I think the Summicron performs better, and is smaller and lighter. However, with the size of the R8&9 the Summilux feels right at home. The Summicron does quite well for closeups with extension tubes.

Another to consider is the 60 f2.8 Macro Elmarit-R good for both general use and close focusing. I do a lot of close work, and use it on my R8 a lot.

[Helge]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb sanadsaad:

You guys were supposed to talk me out of buying it 😂 Due to budget constraints, if I buy the R9, I'll only have £800-£1000 left for a lens. There's currently a leitz 50mm summilux (1972) and a 50mm summicron-R (1981) that fit in that budget. Would you guys suggest a good lens online within that budget to start with at 50mm and then add lenses later?

My favorite lens is the 2.8/60mm Macro Elmarit in the 3CAM E55 (95355) version. Should be available for approximately 400-500£

The 35 mm Elmarit was already mentioned.

[sanadsaad]

I think I'll go for the R9 and the 50mm summicron. There's also a 35mm elmarit 2364691 serial available for £350 which isn't bad. I could certainly add lenses later but I enjoy the 50mm with my M6 so trying to stick to one focal length for now and add more later.

[masjah]

1 hour ago, Helge said:

Some very specific photo flashes are the only things that can take advantage of the focal length information (if transmitted). 
The “performance improvements” are:

- if the photo flash can do it, the built-in zoom adjusts to focal length

- the program automatic selects automatically different exposure times for different focal lengths in „fill flash“ mode

- if you are going to buy a Leica R DMR or a SL2/SL3 it transmits EXIF relevant data

From my point of view it doesn’t matter whether a lens has ROM or not. A lot of newer designs did exist as ROM and without.

@sanadsaad you can use all 3 cam lenses.

There's a bit more to it than that. For example, if you've got a variable aperture zoom lens, then the aperture information for the particular focal length that has been set is transmitted to the camera and flash, so that the correct aperture is employed by the camera and flash for exposure purposes, as well as in the camera display. Likewise, for example, the correct aperture is displayed and used with a 2X extender. Furthermore, information about the aperture dynamics of the particular individual lens sample is stored in the chip and sent to the camera.  With the SL2/SL3, the camera is told which lens is being used, not just its focal length. These cameras need actual focal length information for example to operate the in-camera perspective control feature, and with a zoom lens, it's much more convenient to let the lens send the information automatically. 

How important this is depends to a degree on the individual user. For myself, it is worth it.

[sanadsaad]

That's that then. R9 ordered. Will arrive in 5 days from Leica Hamburg. Eyeing a 50 summicron lens ROM locally for £800. Others are slightly cheaper but non-ROM or slightly expensive and Summilux but vintage. Decisions decisions!

[sanadsaad]

Here's what I've found:

1. 50mm summicron R ROM - £800

2. 60mm 2.8 elmarit £250

3. 50mm summicron 3cam £250

4. 35mm elmarit 2.8 £350

Do I go with 1 alone or option 2,3 and 4?

[dpitt]

3 hours ago, sanadsaad said:

Here's what I've found:

1. 50mm summicron R ROM - £800

2. 60mm 2.8 elmarit £250

3. 50mm summicron 3cam £250

4. 35mm elmarit 2.8 £350

Do I go with 1 alone or option 2,3 and 4?

One thing not mentioned yet about the lenses:
The R9 DOES NOT work with the oldest 1-cam and 2-cam lenses!
The SL/SL2 are the old classic camera's from the sixties, nothing to do with the current digital SL series.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Other than that, I think ROM lenses offer little advantage over non-ROM lenses, but are much more expensive. They also require  the expensive Leica adapter on the SL series to give this limited advantage of reading out EXIF info. Yes, ROM lenses will keep their value because of this and because  they are rare. But optically there is nothing to gain on modern camera's and little to gain on the R8/R9.

I would go for option 2/3/4 if they are compatible and in good working condition. Finding an R or 3-cam version should not be hard or expensive.
You can always decide later about adding a ROM lens if you need it.
The R lenses will keep their value so you can sell them later without much loss, maybe even a little profit.

Edited June 8, 2024 by dpitt

[sanadsaad]

Unfortunately the cheaper lenses got sold. I've had a look around and here's what's available at similar prices (around upto £800):

1. Summilux-R 50mm f1.4 3 CAM

2. 35mm summicron R f2 3CAM (serviced by Leica in May 2024)

3. 50mm summicron-R ROM 

These are available in good condition. There are cheaper versions of other focal lengths but as these are the ones I commonly use, I figured start with one and put rolls through the camera, then add other focal lengths over time when a good deal appears. Which one would you guys recommend? Is the extra stop on summilux better or is the quality of the summicron ROM better? Or is a Leica fully serviced 35mm the better deal? Appreciate your advice!

[Helge]

From my point of view it depends definitely on your preferences.

The 50 mm Summilux provides more freedom in arranging the depth of field, the 35 mm is a good wide angle lens, allows (my opinion) a single lens approach.

A Summicron 50mm for about 800£? You pay about 1/2 of that price for the ROM feature, its benefit with a 50mm prime lens seems pretty limited to me.

Edited June 13, 2024 by Helge

[250swb]

For your future sanity whichever you choose try to match your lenses so they either all take screw in filters or all take Series filters. The sensible decision is to start with a newer lens that uses a screw in filter and stick with that scheme throughout. Even then Leica didn't take any hints about standardisation from other manufacturers who started making SLR's long before them and decided lots of different filter sizes was a great idea.

Edited June 13, 2024 by 250swb

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[Helge]

Filter size might be probably the least important thing to look at, especially since this is also somewhat dependent on the actual front lens diameter and in competition to a more compact lens.

There are definitely more important parameters to decide about 😉

Yes, the series filter might have been at the end not the smartest decision by Leica, but they are available (if you really use filters at all or even periodically).

[wizard]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb sanadsaad:

Appreciate your advice!

As Masjah pointed out above, ROM lenses have their advantages mostly when the lens concerned is a zoom lens. Else, there is not really much difference between a ROM lens and a non-ROM lens (at least when you use the lenses on a film body and not on a digital camera). I am a long-time R9 owner and use my R9 with ROM and non-ROM lenses. If a given lens is available with ROM at about the same price, go for the ROM lens, but I would not pay a stiff premium for a ROM lens if the intended use case is on a film body.

A freshly serviced (by Leica) f2/35mm Summicron-R lens seems to be an excellent buy, and it is a very good lens. Add a 90mm lens once you have the funds, and you have a nice and capable set. The 60mm Macro-Elmarit lens is a great lens, too, I use mine more often than my Summicron 50 (I have a Summilux 50 as well), and it is often available at very reasonable prices. My pick in your situation would be the 35mm lens, as it leaves you with better options to add other lenses. 

Edited June 13, 2024 by wizard