Sell SL2 (and M10) for M11?

[Almizilero]

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So, this is very much apples vs. oranges and I will admit there is some GAS involved, but hear me out.

At the moment, I have three cameras, an M10 for everyday use, travel and everything fun-related. And a combo of SL2-S and SL2 for the “work” stuff. Photography is just a side gig, but I do the occasional portrait work and am regularily booked for stage photography.

Basically, three cameras seem a bit like overkill in that situation, but when I do professional work, I want a backup body and the M10 just doesn't cut it, especially with the stage stuff. Don't get me wrong, I take that thing everywhere and love the output, but I tried it as a secondary body and it just didn't work for me. The M11 with it's internal memory/SD backup, highlight exposure mode, less shutter noise and (hopefully) better low light performance seems to be a valid option that the M10, for me, just isn't.

The SL2-S is my main camera, so that one will stay. I am constantly amazed by the results I get with the SL2-S and the 90 APO or Sigma 35/1.2. The SL2 only comes into play as a secondary camera or when I think I will need the resolution. I don't know what it is, while the results are always “good”, they never wow me as much as the SL2-S images do.

So while there might be solutions that make more sense (like a cheaper second L-Mount body), this is where the M11(-P) comes into play. If the M11 has better low light capabilities than the M10 and the SL2, it might be a valid option. So that is really my question. Apart from all the differences of the bodies, it comes down to the image quality. Or maybe I just need someone to bring me to my senses regarding GAS

I already have some reservations:

• Selling two cameras to finance just one seems a strange way to approach the “I don't need three cameras”-dilemma
• Directly connected: The M11 is expensive! I already feel strange taking the M10 everywhere and the M11 is almost double the price!
• I love the M10 and it works flawlessly. With all the talk about M11 malfunctions, I fear that I might spend a lot of money for a lot of frustration

On the other hand:

• I really just “need” two cameras. The SL2 is just sitting there most of the time, unless I need a second body. It just feels like it's wasting away.
• I wouldn't have to spend “new” money on this, I would just switch around the stuff I have (See above, selling the M10 & SL2 should fund an M11)
• I managed to work with only the SL2-S before, switching between the 35 and 90 lenses. Once Samyang delivers the 35-150 for L-Mount, that would probably be my only lens for the stage. If the IQ of the M11 is better than SL2/M10, I'd be confident with that as my worst case backup.
• While I'm usually not into to many Megapixels (see my preference for the SL2-S) I'd very much appreciate the option to choose of the M11. I think I would use crop much more on the M, since I usually only take one lens along.
• The shutter speed of the electronic shutter would be very welcome!
• Less weight is always welcome as well (but I'm not sure if I wouldn't go for the the heavier silver one again, I just like the look better)
• With the internal memory and an SD card, it would finally be possible to have a backup of the files on the M as well. So no need to take an extra backup drive for travel. -> Less bulk/weight again
• USB-Charging -> less stuff to take when traveling

 

So, GAS aside, the cost of the M11 is a bit breathtaking and my main fear is that I wouldn't dare to take it anywhere because of that. On the other hand, the M10 isn't cheap either and I got insurance. Overall it looks like I would loose one camera that collects dust most of the time anyway and would get two bodies that I'd use all the time. And despite the price, I think I could make good use of the benefits the M11 has over the M10. Since I wouldn't have to invest extra money (or at least not much), it comes down to the image quality of the M11 and the stability of the unit I'd get. Because constant freezes would be a killer during a stage production.

Feels like I had to write all this down to gather my thoughts, but I'd be happy to hear yours as well. Especially from people who use the SL2(-S) and the M11 together. Thanks!

 

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[maidenfan84]

To be straight and blunt, I wouldn’t. You have, assumingely, two cameras that work when you need them to. The M11 has a strong possibility of leaving you hanging when you least expect it and most need it. I say keep your cameras and wait it out for M12, see if Leica finally gets their act together on the M series. 

[robb]

I would stay with your m10 and sl2 and just GAS away for more glass (apo I recommend).

id pick an M10 or m10R over m11.  I’d pick an sl2 over m11.  

you have an amazing combo, most people would kill for.  So I’d just hunker down and fine tune glass and enjoy.

the sl2-s and sl2 combo (I have two of each) is a dream combo.  I don’t see myself ever selling any of them or my apo summicrons.  Truly magical.

id wait for an m with ibis to add to your m10 someday as ibis will be a game changer for M.

Robb

[LeicaR10]

Almizilero,  I am going to chime in an must totally agree with Robb, Maidenfan84 and Al Brown recommendations for you.  They are spot on with their assessments for the M10s vs M11s and definitely keep the SL2s.  My very wise Leica dealer told me years ago, WAIT at least 6-12 months before buying a new camera model.  This included Leica.  Rationale, it gives the early adopters the opportunity to debug the camera model and in the case of Leica, a chance to fix the issues.  Unfortunately for the M11s its taken Leica 2+ years to address the bugs and if you read the various M11 threads, the issues are still not fully resolved.  Frankly, I do not believe they ever will be either.  I also owned all 3 M11 variants and these cameras were unreliable for my work and so I went back to the M10 variants.  Same goes fot the SL3.  Wait until the firmware is stable and issues resolved.  The SL2 and variant are very stable and simply work.  These are my prime work horse cameras along with the M10s.  It sounds like you have a bad case of GAS.  You can cure GAS only by discipline, do the pros and cons and ask yourself, what is a new camera X going to do that I cannot do now with what I own and use.  You will be surprised...the answer will be your current cameras STILL meet or exceed your needs.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited June 3, 2024 by LeicaR10

[setuporg]

This forum is M11.  Who cares of what has been?  In order to live the Leica life, you have to have the latest one.  Live it all with us together in real time!  All the freezes, doubts, and the never ending suspension of disbelief is it really worth it.

Also: never sell anything M.  This way you won't be taken for a fool.  Sure you've been parted with a lot of money once or tenfold but it's between you and your Leica dealer.  No need to let others in on it.  Too many sellers "helping a friend to sell a lens" every day.  We know how it works.

Here's the ideal: get more M Leicas and lenses and shoot them all.  Keep all the M gear.  Consider different sensors as artistic expressions, like film.  Sell all but the M.

Edited June 3, 2024 by setuporg

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,  You are spot on!  r/ Mark

[Avatar]

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The M11 (black) is far and away my favorite M ever and by a mile.

Feels amazing in the hand and is problem free as is my M11M.

Sure nothing makes sense in trading Leicas in for new models. I don't remember right now exactly what horrible trade I made to get my M11M.

Personally I would do that trade but that doesn't me the SL2 and M10 are not great cameras.

I just picked up an SL2-S, leaving me now with M11M, Q3, M7..traded the Sl2 and sold the other M11 I had..Using the Q3 to fill that spot.

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by Avatar

[Almizilero]

Thanks for all the input, guys! That was mostly very sobering! And pretty much on par with my own thoughts over the first coffee after a good nights sleep. Rainy days like yesterday are terribly GAS-inducing, I just went and checked some seller websites, reviews and all that instead of going out shooting with what I have ... And suddenly the idea of an M11 didn't feel so bad.

I might consider what to do with the SL2, maybe get a cheaper backup body and another APO instead. The 35 APO is always at the back of my head, even though the Sigma ist absolutely amazing. But every time I go by Wetzlar, I feel the urge to rent out the APO again. On the other hand, I got the silver SL2 and it's darn beautifu. Yes, it is mostly just sitting there collecting dust, but I'd probably miss it anyways. So yeah, GAS cured for now, but I stupidly send out mails to two of my trusted sellers yesterday, asking for a quote on used M11s. So lets hope they don't make offers I can't refuse Maybe I just have to rent an M11, experience some freezes myself and that'll be that 😇

Off to a shoot now and you know what, I'll use the SL2 for a change. Let's see if we can't fall in love, aside from the looks, after all.

[Cattoo]

I traded my M10 in for an M11 within a month of its release and have never experienced one freeze. For me it was a good trade. I find the M11 better at handling highlights, and the files far easier to manipulate. And then there’s the resolution, internal memory and even the more durable finish. It still looks new.  

[250swb]

If you have GAS start an new bag or strap thread and find something cheaper that fixes the problem.

[Almizilero]

It's not only GAS. I think some of the points I considered are worth thinking about. But aside from the fear of freezes, it is still mostly the idea of binding so much money into one camera that I can't wrap my head around. I could get two M10s for that. Or three SL2-S (used). Or some really great lenses. Or just keep the flawlessly working cameras that I have 😇 

 

[DadDadDaddyo]

GAS can be tough. I know it firsthand. 

But I'm working on it. I'm hoping for results soon.....

Arrrrrrrgh!! I want patience and I want it NOW!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo

[Photoworks]

if you don't need to I would keep what you have.

I am currently using SL2 Sl3 and M11 and q2.  

For work, I don't see replacing the SL cameras with M body. for many situations, it is not practical.

But I use the M11 40% of the time and it is always with me. I would not want to go back to M10 or M10-R. The image quality of the M11 is more than resolution, just a beautiful range at ISO 64, great DR, and most of the time I would use one battery all day, with EVF and GPS active.
I never use the internal Memory, it is almost like I keep forgetting it is there. and it is complicated to download. But I use USB-C often to capture one iPad when I do a quick shoot tethered of portraits on location, My favorite part.

The 11-P bigger Memory and Leica Credential don't attract me, most of the software that I use does not support it, so it will make it very slow and complicated.

Freeze:  I have been using my M11 from the first week it came out, this year I may had 5-6 times where it froze. Not a big deal to me, and I shoot a lot.

[Antonio Russell]

There is not right or wrong answer. It is entirely up to you and what you want.

[Budfox]

I would keep the three cameras and use the SL2 as the backup, if a backup is what you need. If you are making money from the SL2-S, it seems sensible to have a similar format camera as a backup (even if you use M lenses).

The risk is the M11 won't be any better a backup than the M10, and the greater risk of huge frustration if it starts freezing. There is also the high cost of the M11 and the risk of carrying such valuable gear around on work assignments.

When the M12 comes out then reconsider.

[M8X2]

My take: sell all electronics and GAS on SL3 and M11. The upside: basically the same sensor and same IQ, which brings consistency to your works and your workflow, new warranties and if used professionally, new write-offs for your taxes.

[jaapv]

I would replace theSL2 by an S5ii. You clearly don’t need the resolution and the financial differential always comes in handy. 

[Jeff S]

On 6/3/2024 at 5:33 AM, Almizilero said:

So yeah, GAS cured for now,

Right 🤪

Jeff

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[Almizilero]

So you've seen my post in the Samyang 35-150 thread? 😇

[setuporg]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

I would replace theSL2 by an S5ii. You clearly don’t need the resolution and the financial differential always comes in handy. 

The S5iix is just awesome, and great for video.  I think the whole SL line can be replaced by Lunix and Sigma lenses.  Also smaller.  Leica clones the lenses anyways.