Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.2 Aspherical II Leica M + Leica M240 - The problem of poor results.

[jarekzon]

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[jarekzon]

It's a good thing I bought this Leica, because while researching it, at least I found out about bad things that I never even dreamed of. For example, a trilogy could be written about the defects, shortcomings and warranty returns of Leica cameras. I checked several Leica M8 cameras and all of them had sensor defects. Someone will say, but it's an old camera. Ok, I have a lot of older digital cameras and they all work perfectly mechanically and electronically. My first encounter with Leica cameras showed the sad truth that the king is naked. It would have been better to buy a Leica lens for this money. Well, now that I have it, I'll test it again to see what else is hidden there. Fortunately, it does not lose value because influencers work hard for it.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, jarekzon said:

"When used properly it will be better on the Leica than on the Sony. " - It won't perform any better than the Sony and is very far from what the Sony can do.

In both cases, the lens was set identically, at infinity. On a Leica, an excellent lens performs poorly. I checked this in many other photos. This lens performs simply poorly on Leica, but on Sony it performs great.

There is no Leica magic. With any other camera I can take better photos and have half as many problems. There is no Leica magic, only great Leica marketing and the wild imagination of influencers. The only thing that Leica has good are the lenses, but the lenses showed their full potential, as you can see, they must be used on a camera other than the Leica.

Have you read the thread?  Your “test” is poorly executed on a camera that you don't yet know how to use ( a manual lens cannot be set completely accurately to infinity by slamming it against the stop, it must be actively focused) and your conclusion is spurious and contrary to all conclusions by capable photographers. 
But hey! Instead of indulging in a bit of gear-blaming, use your gear in a way that works for you and put the lens on your Sony. Nothing wrong with that. 
 

[M Street Photographer]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Have you read the thread?  Your “test” is poorly executed on a camera that you don't yet know how to use and your conclusion is spurious and contrary to all conclusions by capable photographers. 
But hey! Instead of indulging in a bit of gear-blaming, use your gear in a way that works for you and put the lens on your Sony. 

Please close here before it gets even more unspeakable.

[costa43]

I'm sorry you are displeased with your Leica m240. A single comparison picture is hard to work with but Fred Miranda has plenty of excellent comparisons of M lenses on Sony and Leica M. It's in my opinion the best resource for this on the web. Through his extensive testing, it is very often, but not always the case that the M performs better off centre.

On a separate note. The Leica M is about the experience not just about the output. If you do not like it, sell it and move on. Plenty of choices out there for everybody. If you look on Flickr and the dedicated threads here, you will see fantastic images taken with all Leica M models.

 

[jaapv]

34 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

Please close here before it gets even more unspeakable.

On this forum we do not censor people for being misguided in photographic matters, we try to explain matters. 

[M Street Photographer]

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Please don't notice that the OP doesn't address our arguments and suggestions.He insists on his opinion, ignores our suggestions and only speaks out against one manufacturer.It's not about censoring the OP, it's about the fact that we can't move forward without his positive participation.

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by M Street Photographer

[M Street Photographer]

Many people have questions or problems that we raise in a peace process and that we are interested in clarifying.There is no point in taking it a step further where the OP argues exclusively against Leica in a Leica forum and tears the company apart.We are not fanboys.Be it that the test setup with the example photos is bad, be it that there is a lack of knowledge, or be it that there is no willingness to follow our recommendations.Therefore, there is no point in further supporting and continuing this topic.

 

[jarekzon]

I noticed another thing. Looking through the rangefinder and focusing at infinity at distant subject, I can't cover the split image using the Nokton 35mm f1.2. There are about two millimeters missing and the lens is already at the limit and set at the infinity. In the Notkon 50 mm f1.4 I can focus correctly. Split images are sperimposed.

[jarekzon]

Whoever has debating points does not have to fear criticism. So what are you afraid of?

[Xavier]

12 minutes ago, jarekzon said:

I noticed another thing. Looking through the rangefinder and focusing at infinity at distant subject, I can't cover the split image using the Nokton 35mm f1.2. There are about two millimeters missing and the lens is already at the limit and set at the infinity. In the Notkon 50 mm f1.4 I can focus correctly. Split images are sperimposed.

This is a strong sign that your body and/or lens has some alignment issue.

A more thorough study will help narrow down the issue, and get it fixed.

Edited June 3, 2024 by Xavier

[jaapv]

25 minutes ago, jarekzon said:

I noticed another thing. Looking through the rangefinder and focusing at infinity at distant subject, I can't cover the split image using the Nokton 35mm f1.2. There are about two millimeters missing and the lens is already at the limit and set at the infinity. In the Notkon 50 mm f1.4 I can focus correctly. Split images are sperimposed.

There you are. Not bad corners but misfocus. Voigtländer sometimes has sample variation. Have the lens adjusted. Send the camera in too to make sure. Best to have the whole system calibrated. The camera is ten years old; plenty of time to get slightly out of adjustment. Use a local specialist to save time and money  

 

[M Street Photographer]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb jarekzon:

I noticed another thing. Looking through the rangefinder and focusing at infinity at distant subject, I can't cover the split image using the Nokton 35mm f1.2. There are about two millimeters missing and the lens is already at the limit and set at the infinity. In the Notkon 50 mm f1.4 I can focus correctly. Split images are sperimposed.

With this information at the beginning we would have saved ourselves a lot of suffering and discussions.

That's exactly my suspicion and it would have been easy to get hold of if you had taken a photo via LiveView to see if the focus was correct, so it seems to me that the rangefinder is adjusted.It could also be that the bayonet on the Vogtländer, where the roller engages for infinity, is not seated correctly.

Unfortunately, it is a problem to send cameras and lenses from other manufacturers to Leica, as Leica-Voigtländer will not adjust or check them.

Edited June 3, 2024 by M Street Photographer

[andybarton]

56 minutes ago, jarekzon said:

In the Notkon 50 mm f1.4 I can focus correctly.

Compare that on the Sony too.

[M Street Photographer]

vor 1 Minute schrieb andybarton:

Compare that on the Sony too.

Are you sure? Back when I had a Sony R and a Leica, I didn't notice any difference, that is, I could focus everything correctly on the Sony, although there were problems on the rangefinder, even at the infinity setting.

[andybarton]

I was just wondering whether the OP was dismissing the entire Leica camera history on the basis of one lens not focussing properly when he has at least one other with which he can play.

[jarekzon]

I started to take a closer look at the problem and what I noticed is described below. There may be language errors, I'm not a native speaker. Of course, I leave advice like: "The M240 is from 2012. When was the A7Rii made?" without comment, because commenting on such wisdom is beyond my capabilities, but I will be happy to listen to those who want to truly help.

As I said after connecting the Nokton 50 mm f1.5, everything is fine. The image is of good quality, e.g. a photo of a landscape outside the window, with the lens set to infinity, at f8 aperture, the whole frame is sharp, there is no problem with focusing with a rangefinder. After connecting the Nokton 35 mm f1.2, something is wrong with the image. As you know, the Nokton 35 mm f1.2 is a great lens, it should give great results, and it does when I attach it to the Sony A7. It takes great photos on the Sony, but when connected to the Leica 240, it produces surprisingly poor photos. Type of photo as before, i.e. landscape outside the window. At f8, the image is satisfactorily sharp in the center of the frame, but the edges and corners are very poorly sharp. In addition, at lower apertures, even the center of the frame, the photo is blurry. And there should at least be a sharp object that I'm focusing on. I noticed that in the rangefinder, when I set the lens to a distant object and to infinity, the images of this object do not overlap, there is about 2 mm missing to cover them. It looks as if you can sharpen closer objects, and further objects seem to lack the scale to sharpen. When you focus on closer objects, they appear sharp in the photo, and when you focus on a distant object, it becomes blurry, and only after stopping the aperture to f8 does it become reasonably sharp. So does it look like a problem with range finder ? It is certainly not a problem that Leica was manufactured a long time ago and Sony is manufactured today. It's also not a problem that this lens already has such imaging. There must be some other reason.

Edited June 3, 2024 by jarekzon

[M Street Photographer]

Please look at # 53

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[andybarton]

1 minute ago, jarekzon said:

I leave advice like: "The M240 is from 2012. When was the A7Rii made?" without comment

It was I that made that comment, of course. I apologise, as I thought that the Sony was much later than the M240 and would have much a more advanced sensor. Mea culpa.

The fact that you have established that the M240 may not focus the Voight lens and need adjustment is a step forward, but the attitude that "everyone here is a fan boy and everyone is in denial about how poor results are from Leica cameras when compared to a Sony" is not helpful.

[M Street Photographer]

Or as I wrote, there is something wrong with the bayonet of the 35.12, where the infinite roller is located.If the camera was misaligned in the infinity setting, there would also be problems with the 50 mm at infinity.