New (small-ish) Lumix FF camera

[LocalHero1953]

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I have no need for an EVF in video, but my experience with the fp is that I do want one for stills. It’s partly eyesight: I can’t quite see enough detail on a rear screen with contacts, specs or naked eyeball, but the ~2m image distance in a typical EVF is just fine. Then unless you confine yourself to small light lenses (not common in L-mount) holding it at arms length is tiring; I’d rather brace it against my body with crooked elbows.

[costa43]

11 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The Ricoh GRIII has no EVF and not even a tilt/flip screen and after 5 years it’s still in the top 20 cameras sold. Sure it’s smaller and fits in the pocket of your pants, but it’s also APS-C. 
I think this camera will be successful. I’ll probably get one in a few months. 
Paired with the 45 or 50mm Sigma, to me it’s the  Q3 with a 50mm that Leica never released. 

The Ricoh plays in a different arena, a discreet, street snapshot camera. It’s pocketable and as you say can be operated with one hand, it weighs 257g including the lens. For perspective, the s9 with the 50mm Sigma you mention is circa 820g. 

I do really hope it is successful, it just feels like it could have been very interesting with a solid evf built in.  

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, costa43 said:

The Ricoh plays in a different arena, a discreet, street snapshot camera. It’s pocketable and as you say can be operated with one hand, it weighs 257g including the lens. For perspective, the s9 with the 50mm Sigma you mention is circa 820g. 

I do really hope it is successful, it just feels like it could have been very interesting with a solid evf built in.  

Yeah, I had a GRIII for well over a year. Great little cameras. 820g for a full frame camera + lens is not too bad, I could live with that. If paired with the 45mm it’s 685g.

I’ll wait and see what Leica does. Given their history with Panasonic, they may release a similar model but more photo-centric. If not, I’ll get this one. 

[costa43]

10 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have no need for an EVF in video, but my experience with the fp is that I do want one for stills. It’s partly eyesight: I can’t quite see enough detail on a rear screen with contacts, specs or naked eyeball, but the ~2m image distance in a typical EVF is just fine. Then unless you confine yourself to small light lenses (not common in L-mount) holding it at arms length is tiring; I’d rather brace it against my body with crooked elbows.

Absolutely. The evf is also a must if you want to adapt M glass etc. Manual focus off the back of a screen is not a pleasure for me.

[jaapv]

I wonder why everybody is so insistent on an EVF for stills - the vast majority of photographs on this planet is taken with smartphones - I have yet to see a smartphone with an EVF.  Leica even bought into this idea with the T series. 

And the S9 is not even intended for more than the ocaasional photograph , it is a camera for social media and  (advanced) amateur video use, a quality step up (and quite a substantial one) from a smartphone.

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, jaapv said:

I wonder why everybody is so insistent on an EVF for stills - the vast majority of photographs on this planet is taken with smartphones - I have yet to see a smartphone with an EVF.  Leica even bought into this idea with the T series. 

And the S9 is not even intended for more than the ocaasional photograph , it is a camera for social media video use.

Try holding a SL2 and SL lens at arms length like a smartphone while wandering around at leisure. Try using a SL for a selfie - or on a selfie stick.

But I agree that the S9 is not intended for stills, any more than the fp was - yes, you can use them for stills (and I know many forum people do), but they bring Dr Johnson, women preachers and dogs on hind legs to mind. (In case you think I'm being randomly offensive)

[jaapv]

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18 minutes ago, costa43 said:

Absolutely. The evf is also a must if you want to adapt M glass etc. Manual focus off the back of a screen is not a pleasure for me.

Why would you want to use M lenses on such a camera? To start with, the sensor is certainly not configured for this.

[jaapv]

Actually I sometimes hold a SL or S5 at arms length with a 600 mm lens... Using a dot sight for birds.🤩

3 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Try holding a SL2 and SL lens at arms length like a smartphone while wandering around at leisure. Try using a SL for a selfie - or on a selfie stick.

But I agree that the S9 is not intended for stills, any more than the fp was - yes, you can use them for stills (and I know many forum people do), but they bring Dr Johnson, women preachers and dogs on hind legs to mind. (In case you think I'm being randomly offensive)

 

[jaapv]

12 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Actually I sometimes hold a SL or S5 at arms length with a 600 mm lens... Using a dot sight for birds.🤩

 

 

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[Ivar B]

13 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

With an EVF it would be a great CL replacement

That was my immediate feeling as well. I sold my CL some time ago and I will serioursly consider the Pana as a replacement. 

[costa43]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Why would you want to use M lenses on such a camera? To start with, the sensor is certainly not configured for this.

I think it could be an awesome small setup as another option for casual family bits etc where critical corners are less important to me. Having something that weighs the same as a CL but is FF is somewhat appealing, especially at its price. It would basically be the interchangeable lens Q that a fair few people have been wanting. Along with the option of uploadable profiles it could be a lot of fun. 

Edited May 25, 2024 by costa43

[lct]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Why would you want to use M lenses on such a camera? To start with, the sensor is certainly not configured for this.

One could say the same about the Sigma FPL that works fine with most of my M lenses, including ultra wides like WATE, so far.

[jaapv]

The WATE is the least affected lens on non-Leica sensors and will give good results on most cameras. 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

I think it could be an awesome small setup as another option for casual family bits etc where critical corners are less important to me. Having something that weighs the same as a CL but is FF is somewhat appealing, especially at its price. It would basically be the interchangeable lens Q that a fair few people have been wanting. Along with the option of uploadable profiles it could be a lot of fun. 

For that use case an EVF is not essential. See the X and T(L) series. 

[charlesphoto99]

You know, everyone's always looking for this holy grail compact full frame camera. Thing is, we have it already. It's called the M. I know I've gone down this fool's path before, which is why I have a barely used CL sitting in a case. By the time I put a grip on it, an adapter with an M lens (or a huge L lens) it's really no more compact than an M. A Q certainly isn't. Lighter yes, but still something one has to throw over a shoulder or carry in a bag. In this day and age, a top of the line smart phone can now shoot RAW, and it's something one has to have on them at all time as it is. 

[costa43]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

For that use case an EVF is not essential. See the X and T(L) series. 

Nailing critical focus with a manual lens on a back screen is difficult for me and not enjoyable, which defeats the object of my hobby. Some may be ok with it. 

Edited May 25, 2024 by costa43

[lct]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The WATE is the least affected lens on non-Leica sensors and will give good results on most cameras. 

Good reason to use the WATE on the S9 then if it behaves like the Sigma. Same with the MATE and non Leica lenses like CV 21/3.5, CV 21/4, CV 28/2, Rokkor 28/2.8 and most if not all 35mm and above M lenses as far as my copies are concerned at least.

[jaapv]

 Not sure about the MATE. Non-Leica lenses have the same problems as Leica ones. 

[lct]

38 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 Not sure about the MATE. Non-Leica lenses have the same problems as Leica ones. 

Depends on cameras and lenses. My MATE works fine on the Sigma and some non-Leica lenses work better than Leica's on it.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

1 minute ago, lct said:

some non-Leica lenses work better than Leica's on it.

And the other way around as well, I'm sure. A matter of experimenting.