SL3-S have better video quality over the SL3 (if one comes out?)

[thebarnman]

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I was watching Red Dot Forum where a question was asked about if the SL3 was overall great for everything photos and video.  There was a pause and the answer was a SL3-S (if one comes out) would be possibly be better for video.  

Does anyone here know what they were talking about?  Based off from that answer, I'm guessing there was a video improvement in performance on the SL2-S when compared to the the SL2.

What kind if any video improvement is there on the SL2-S compaired to the SL2?    

 

Edited April 18, 2024 by thebarnman

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[PeterBoyadjian]

 

What kind if any video improvement is there on the SL2-S compared to the SL2?     

AF Speed and Low Light.

I don't think a SL3S is coming out, just my opinion. 

 

[LocalHero1953]

I doubt it will be better inherent colour quality. However a SL3-S is likely to have a reduced pixel count, and for example, may be able to record 8K full frame open gate, which has recording performance benefits because it requires less in-camera processing: higher fps at better colour depth, raw footage, alternative recording formats etc.

Beyond that it's a matter of guesswork whether they will add other functionality not seen in the SL3: better control of exposure and focusing parameters during recording, direct USB-C recording to external SSD (while is this less important now you can have a high capacity CFe card, having an external recording SSD as well allows you to swap storage during live recording).

I'm sure video experts can suggest other improvements, some of which may require a physically different body (larger screen? alternative ports) 

Edited April 18, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

I have a strong suspicion that it will be a “Leicafied” Panasonic S5ii. Which would be a good thing. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Likely they are referring to the slowish read out speed of the SL3. Unfortunately, all the current 8K capable hybrid cameras, except 2.5 of them, also have relatively slow readout speeds, so there's nothing new here. I suppose they hope for a lower MP camera with a fast readout speed or an SL3-S with the current Sony A1 sensor which along with the Z9/9 are the only fast readout 8K capable cameras. You need 4MP for 8k recording.

It's not a huge issue if your shooting slower moving subjects but an issue for dynamically moving things. Personally, I'm more than happy to send those things to my Osmo Pocket 3 or highly capable s5II.

Gordon

[hansvons]

The resolution sweet spot of cine cameras today is 4K for S35mm and 6K for FF sensors. And that won’t change any time soon, as 4K is today's main delivery format and will stay that way for a decade or so, according to what industry experts said on NAB lately. Thus, the name of the game is fidelity, DR, colour science, and compression. There are some manufacturers who want to introduce the resolution rat race to the cinema market but without much success. 

The market of hybrid cameras like a potential SL3-S is different as AF and high numbers are selling points to a customer base that’s not looking for the highest image quality but convenience and specs. That's where the ridiculous 8k resolution comes in, which requires high compression, produces inexceptable quality, but sounds nice.

To get an idea of what an SL3-S will look like take a look at the S5IIx. Add to that 4k ProRes recording and you have your future SL3-S. 

Will it come? I guess so because, with the S5Iix, the technology is already there. How long will it take to release it? At least Spring 2025. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2024 by hansvons

[jaapv]

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The S5ii sensor was developed in conjunction with Leica, so it would be rather a waste not to use it. And a pretty good sensor it is too, which scores very high on fidelity. The convergence in AF is already noticeable on the S3. 
BTW the 8K resolution has one use: implementations that do not use raw but are jpg only, like high-speed bursts, pre-release, in-camera focus stacking,etc,  benefit. 

[tomasis7]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The S5ii sensor was developed in conjunction with Leica, so it would be rather a waste not to use it. And a pretty good sensor it is too. The convergence in AF is already noticeable on the S3. 

100%! 

Leica would sell a lot of SL3-S if priced lower than SL3.

Im not one of those who are megapixel-crazy  A lot of features of SL3 is great for video. AF, flipscreen etc.

[LocalHero1953]

I understand the deficiencies of 8k, but it does have a benefit as a video equivalent of the Q: you can crop in post to digitally zoom and/or pan, and electronically stabilise footage. For the amateur, cheapo, hybrid end of the market (are you looking at me?) this is handy.

[tomasis7]

Prevent rolling shutter effect is more important than mpx. 

SL3 is not even good enough!!! Fix it first then talk about 8k. 

[Photoworks]

You are missing the fact that the SL3 video has a crop of x1.2 over the SL2 in video

I want a full frame and open gate at 5-6k, I don't need 8K.

Most live shows on TV are still 1080p, and they didn't care about going to 1080p.

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, thebarnman said:

What kind if any video improvement is there on the SL2-S compaired to the SL2? 

• Faster readout, which means less rolling shutter effect (eg: vertical lines look slanted when you pan)
• The SL2-s' 6,000x4,000 resolution is closer to UHD (3840 x 2160), so there is less interpolation needed. The APS-C "crop" 4K mode is 1:1 (no interpolation), full-frame is 3:2.
• The SL2-s has less noise in shadows because each pixel is bigger.
• The camera should stay cooler because it has less processing to do. This can lead to lower noise during long takes, and lower battery consumption.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

The SL2-s has less noise in shadows because each pixel is bigger.

Yes, SL2-S has less noise in shadows. No, it is not because of the bigger pixels. Pixel size has little influence on noise in shadows once you compare at the same output size.

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes, SL2-S has less noise in shadows. No, it is not because of the bigger pixels. Pixel size has little influence on noise in shadows once you compare at the same output size.

This has always been Red's mantra when pitching their cine cameras against Arri. The argument was that you shrink the noise by downscaling the image, and you'll have the best of both worlds: high resolution if needed and low noise for delivery. It didn't pan out as they had hoped (I owned one and always preferred the Alexa) and the new Alexa35 settled the dispute for good. Good pixels are better than many pixels unless you need many pixels. It's not only the noise but also the ability to record more information in a given time when the photosites are larger. The result is a higher fidelity in the shadows. That's, BTW, the main reason I believe that the SL2-S is the best bang for the buck in the Leicaverse.

[SrMi]

42 minutes ago, hansvons said:

This has always been Red's mantra when pitching their cine cameras against Arri. The argument was that you shrink the noise by downscaling the image, and you'll have the best of both worlds: high resolution if needed and low noise for delivery. It didn't pan out as they had hoped (I owned one and always preferred the Alexa) and the new Alexa35 settled the dispute for good. Good pixels are better than many pixels unless you need many pixels. It's not only the noise but also the ability to record more information in a given time when the photosites are larger. The result is a higher fidelity in the shadows. That's, BTW, the main reason I believe that the SL2-S is the best bang for the buck in the Leicaverse.

I have never seen a comparison that shows bigger pixels (same output size) as an advantage. Therefore, I continue to doubt the "good pixels" theory.

However, I continue to see the advantage of higher resolutions (smaller pixels): more details, less aliasing, and better post-processing.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Here you go. Native L mount for the video peeps.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2735107119/blackmagic-design-pyxis-usd3000-6k-full-frame-camera

Gordon

[tomasis7]

10 hours ago, hansvons said:

This has always been Red's mantra when pitching their cine cameras against Arri. The argument was that you shrink the noise by downscaling the image, and you'll have the best of both worlds: high resolution if needed and low noise for delivery. It didn't pan out as they had hoped (I owned one and always preferred the Alexa) and the new Alexa35 settled the dispute for good. Good pixels are better than many pixels unless you need many pixels. It's not only the noise but also the ability to record more information in a given time when the photosites are larger. The result is a higher fidelity in the shadows. That's, BTW, the main reason I believe that the SL2-S is the best bang for the buck in the Leicaverse.

I checked for specs in Google.

It is 16mpx. Photosite pixel pitch is 6um. Readout is 7.5ms. Pretty good! 

For comparison, the newest Sony A7S III still uses 12mpx. Photosite pixel pitch is 8.3um. Readout is 8.7ms.

[tomasis7]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

I have never seen a comparison that shows bigger pixels (same output size) as an advantage. Therefore, I continue to doubt the "good pixels" theory.

However, I continue to see the advantage of higher resolutions (smaller pixels): more details, less aliasing, and better post-processing.

the problem is heat. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[thebarnman]

From what I've read here, a SL3s (if one comes out) would be more like a SL2s when compared to the SL2 (with less resolution for photos,) but have better video performance.  That sounds like a good assumption. 

 

I appreciate the resolution the SL3 has for photos, so for me it might be a good idea to get something separate for capturing video.     

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, tomasis7 said:

the problem is heat. 

Which is why the S5ii(X) has fan cooling, something which would make an SL3-S quite attractive to video users.